First para. Not at all. You said: I said : The evidence (as opposed to dogma) seems to show that leaving the EU will result in a period of time where things will be worse for children in the UK as our economy will be depressed, tax revenues down and imported food prices up. That isn't putting their welfare first, IMHO. However, I'm always willing to read explanations from people who can demonstrate why Brexit will be good for our economy in the short to medium term. For most people with 5 year old children now, we're talking about the rest of their childhood - which they'll never get back. Of course, no-one can explain how it will be better. They'll just accuse me of continuing with something they label "Project Fear" and I label "The Likely Outcome". Second para. I'm sure you understood it perfectly well. I said : Try this alternative way of saying it. It's more "whataboutery" of course. 1 - Don't argue against the reasons for the protest 2 - Unfairly accuse the protesters of being poor parents - not that it has anything to do with the reason for their protest. 3 - Try and get other people to agree the way they are protesting is wrong. 4 - Which therefore means the underlying reason for their protest doesn't have to be addressed. When someone protests, saying "We believe Trump is not representing the American people in the manner they deserve", then you don't successfully refute it by saying "What about those protestors bringing their children along to the protest" That's a different thing entirely. Your Lib Dem question made me smile, but is a further example of avoiding the issue. Why does it matter where I do or don't get my language from? Does it change the validity of the point? No. If Jacob Rees-Mogg had said it, would it be more valid for you than if Vince Cable or Jeremy Corbyn had said it? And the funny thing is I don't care much about the Trump protest either way. What I care about is the way debate and dialogue has been devalued and debased by people who use insults and slogans instead of reasoned discussion. People who know better. It's almost as if they're afraid they won't get what they want using the usual channels... If it was football, we'd be calling it cheating - if it wasn't our side doing the cheating, obviously. Far too many people don't care how it's done as long as they get what they want. Off to watch some tennis and football, now. With or without cheating, depending on how it pans out. Have a lovely afternoon, everyone! [/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
Spot on. We seem to have moved, pretty rapidly, from the ‘post truth’ environment to one where truth (always a dodgy concept) and even honesty are simply irrelevant. People like Trump and Johnson are expected to lie, and contradict themselves from one day to the next (as both have done in the last week) and suffer no consequences simply through not caring. And this will be copied by people who may not be born liars and sociopaths, because it’s becoming the recognised way to ‘do business’. At the same time we are drifting away from democracy (a useless way to decide how a country should run, but as Churchill noted, the best we have) to a sort of faux democracy, where all the institutions are in place and seem to work, but all they do is to prop up an ersatz dictatorship. Turkey was a shining example of proper, secular democracy until a few years ago. Poland, Hungary, Croatia and probably quite a few others are the same - elected hard line governments are eroding freedoms, especially the freedom to oppose them, with the authority of a ‘democratic’ mandate. I fear others, including perhaps us, are floating with the current in the same direction. In times of uncertainty and stress people seem to want a ‘strong’ leader, whatever the cost. We are, truly, sheep. And again, it’s the old guard, the metropolitan liberals like me, who have allowed this to happen.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE][/QUOTE] First para - what you say about kids post-Brexit (if Brexit ever happens - it's looking more and more like a Brino) brings into play all the arguments on Brexit over the past 3 years which I won't rehearse now. Brexiteers say children in the UK will be open to influences from around the world, not merely the EU. Which child will have better influences? A child in a country that is open to trading with the world - or one like in EU member Hungary where there are walls being built around the borders? 2nd para - No, I really did get tied in knots over it. I'll put this at its simplest. Everyone has a right to protest. Every parent has a duty to consider the welfare of their child. The latter takes priority over the former. I'm not talking kids in push chairs yesterday. More, Ellers point, where kids lived in makeshift tents outside Greenham Common. My comment about the Lib Dem manifesto was tongue in cheek and not to be taken seriously! Enjoy the tennis and football, BD.
Why you say this about my Country? All I say is being nice to many England people since I join this Site. Very big compliment to all and one yet you come and put a big ****s on my home. Croatia is never perfect but nowhere ever is. Sometime a Governments must be strict with law to keep orders on many people. Yesterday I see less order on London people (photo below). They have big balloon with Mr Trump wearing diaper. Underneath many people dress like witch. Woman in centre show big penis in trouser. What is this order I ask of you? And you attack Croatia??????? Where is the President of this Site? I wish to speak with him please. please log in to view this image
I cannot believe I have woken up to the news that May has said if we don't accept her plan it could risk Brexit and not getting a Brexit. mmmmm Please don't try the 'project fear' May as it has been tried it before and failed. We must get rid of the betraying remainer. Get rid
I have also heard two well-measured commentators responding to all the stuff on Trump. They were both spot on. They were not a for/against Trump but talked about double standards and how people react to things they don't really understand. As for Sadiq Khan and his marching and worrying about a ballon...How about worrying about knife crime in London?
If you want to talk about people reacting to what they don’t understand, these mugs are protesting to free a guy who pleaded guilty.
It's a perfectly reasonable assessment. If the Tories can't agree on a position, there is a real danger of a no-deal Brexit, and that would be such a disastrous prospect that parliament couldn't allow it to happen.
I wouldn't even trust Labour remainers to back May. I also notice that Khan and another labour bod are basically calling for another referendum?
Rather have a buffoon than what we have. We voted to leave the EU and it was her job to do that. Us Tories trusted her after her speech and she has wrecked it by being weak with the EU. This is not acceptable in the Tory heartlands. Hopefully, Boris will put the knife in (in political terms) and it will finish her.
