Off Topic UK / EU Future

In Belgium I can work and take accomodation but cannot claim any type of benefit until I have been there for some time. Like most EU. countries it has a 'waiting time' for this. In many countries it is necessary to register with the local authorities, open a bank account and health insurance etc. before any work is possible - all of that filters the whole thing a little. People think that Britain is the easiest country in which to pick up casual, cash in hand, work - 'cash in hand work' is almost unknown in Germany. EU. migration to the UK. could be regulated by means which are completely within EU. law - as you say. The actual act of getting into Belgium is no more dramatic than going from Devon into Somerset but it is afterwards that the controls begin.

 

If we’re still part of the single market it largely becomes a moot point mate.

 

Belgium is the example of a country who implements the rules as they can be. What they do is date the entry point of EU citizens, we don’t. An EU citizen can remain in Belgium for up to 3 months, as per a Holiday visa. After 3 months, unless they can prove they can support themselves or that they have employment, then they can be deported back to whichever EU country they came from.

There’s obviously a cost to policing this, and the reason it’s never been done over here, is because the Govt knew fine well that overall EU migrants make a positive contribution to our economy, so they’ve never bothered.

 

Are you sure about this Tobes ? Most EU. citizens don't have a passport, but rather use an ID. card which is difficult to 'stamp' in the same way. So how do you know the time of entry ? When I go to Liege I just get on the train and am there in an hour without anyone knowing. The conditions you describe are the same as those when I first arrived in Germany 28 years ago. The controls come later ie. if I try to claim any benefits in Belgium - they will simply be refused, but deported ? I don't see that deportation is possible with land borders which consist of no more than a signpost (if that). The question of passports (and possible entry stamps) is a tricky one because most visitors to the UK. don't have them. Issue a passport requirement to all those casual German, or French, weekend visitors to London and they will take their money to Amsterdam instead - and there are about 20 million of them, a number far bigger than those thinking of working in the UK.

 

I didn’t mean physical stamps, I meant electronic recording of entry. That’s my understanding of it, if it’s wrong I’ll stand corrected.

What I know is definitely fact, is that they’ll tell you to leave and if necessary remove you, if you don’t have work and can’t sustain yourself. They ramped up their controls about 5 years ago.

 

Do Romanian pickpockets have to declare the profit from their lifts?

 

Not like you to chuck in banal generalisations, with an undertone of casual racism.......oh wait....that’s exactly like you......as you were

 

How do you know that most visitors to the UK don't have passports? - where are the stats or have you personally counted them all?

 

Because the majority of visitors to the UK. are holiday makers W_Y. The majority of those are from the EU. and, under EU. regulations, travelling from one EU. country to another only needs an ID Card. A passport would only be necessary when Visas are required. I do not know the statistics for other countries but 100% of German adults have ID Cards but only a minority have the need for a passport as well. I do not know this for a fact but any visitors I have seen queueing up at British controls from countries like Belgium, the Netherlands, France etc. have had ID. cards ready - they are much more practical.

 

Ssh - don't mention the plagues of Romanian pickpockets working in London, maybe the EU can take them back as part of the deal.

 

A plague....interesting choice of word to describe immigrants that. Sort of goes with infestation, and cockroaches and that sort of thing.......now where have I heard that before?........oh.

 

I have never met someone from eastern Europe that I did not like. Around here we have quite a few - lots of farms with work needed - and they are very pleasant people. Most of our delivery drivers also seem to be eastern Europeans - and they too are good. Can only speak as I experience.
Were your pockets picked in a past life by a Bulgar or similar SH ?

 

News tonight shows that May has won the day and we will be going for the softest of soft Brexits. In fact it can well be described as BRINO. Where did all the hard Brexit men go? Freedom of movement to continue, except it will be called something different. Any minister who speaks out against now will be sacked. Of course she will now have to sell it to the EU, but they did say that if some of the red lines were removed they could help. Probably too much cherry picking, but she has moved this far and could well go further.

 

There is a long way to go. The Brexiteers have not gone anywhere and very doubtful if the EU will go for this mismatch. A no deal is still on the cards.

 

No, not me just thousands of fellow Brits and tourists each year.

 

The Brexiteers in the cabinet were given a choice yesterday. Be neutered or lose your shiny black car. We know now that the car was a greater draw than any principles. Davis said before the meeting that the EU would not accept the proposals, but is he actually in charge of negotiations? Seems that a civil servant is actually doing the job. The misfits on the right of the party have said that the agreed position is "deeply disappointing". This a speak for unacceptable to them. So what will this band of brothers and sisters do next? Bring the government down or call for a leadership election? They would not win unless the opposition thought it would be their big chance.
The model that is being proposed is similar to the strange arrangement that the Swiss have, and is deeply despised within the EU. Constant uncertainty about what the Swiss will do next. Will they be able to agree anything without having a referendum, and how many times will a proposal be amended before it gets the go ahead.
There are plenty of questions that will need answers in the coming days, but yesterday showed that reality is starting to creep in, and a no deal option is accepted as being the worst option of all.

 

I agree that there is uncertainty about what Switzerland will do next, but the fact that this model is despised in some quarters of the EU. tells us more about the EU. than it does about Switzerland Frenchie, at least in my opinion. With Switzerland the EU. is faced with a country which has, generally higher environmental standards, and another democratic traditon (which some say is superior). I can remember a few years back that the EU. was up in arms (Germany and Italy in particular) because the Swiss declared that all international freight travelling through the country had to be done by train within a time span of 5 years. Obviously done to safeguard Alpine passes from the environmental damage of constant lorry freight from Germany and Italy - and decided on by referendum by each area concerned. This was apparently a violation of the principle of free movement of goods - but one which was surely justifiable. There are other areas where Switzerland appears difficult for the EU. but this is an interesting challenge for them.

 

EU intransigence will ensure a no deal is the most likely option now. They fear an independent powerhouse on their doorstep, free of much red tape and restrictive practices. There is so much scepticism now in the EU for its superstate project that damaging the UK is the priority.
The Brexiteers will live to fight another day, they will ensure the referendum result is respected.

 

The referendum result simply told us that a majority (on the day), wanted to leave. It did not tell us what type of Brexit was wanted. If it had said on the ballot paper -'Do you want to sever all contact to the EU. including trade', how many people would have voted for that version ? We will only know what the British want when another referendum offering a more differentiated range of possibilities is offered to them. You have no way of knowing whether the form of Brexit offered by TM. is the will of the electorate or not. It's also interesting that you refer to an 'independent powerhouse' on their doorstep - yet apparently this 'powerhouse' was not able to assert itself as an active member within the Union.

 

All sides before the referendum made it perfectly clear that leaving the EU meant leaving the single market and the customs union. That is what was voted on and the electorate chose leave on those terms. The PM has consistently reiterated these facts and now has to carry out what was promised. Any backsliding will install anger and disappointment in the majority of those vast numbers who bothered to vote. The EU is unlikely to accept this offer, any further backsliding will result in ridicule for the PM and the UK in general. The UK was unable to assert adequate authority because of the stitch up between Germany and it's lackey France.