sure... No i was going the other way: right wing money marketeer makes himself out to be man of the people
Sounds tonight that Gove has had a temper tantrum tearing up documents that he doesn't believe represent his view. Doesn't sound good for a resolution of the problems on Friday. May has tried to keep a balance in her cabinet which clearly is not working. Collective responsibility has turned into open warfare. Time to get the axe out and remove people like Gove and Johnson. Davis keeps threatening to resign so maybe for once he will be good to his word. This utter shambles has gone too far.
Those troublesome ministers in the cabinet that cannot back May's clear priorities of leaving the single market and the customs union should be ditched. Hammond and Clark to begin with. Some of the other 'remainers' are now more vocal in supporting leaving. Peter Bone is correct, the UK should give notice it will leave without a deal unless the EU start proper negotiations.
Your last sentence sums up the arrogance of some leavers perfectly. The UK chose to leave the EU. Why should they negotiate with us? They never picked this fight.
I am afraid Great Britain has always thought it is one above the others. In the British psyche there is a puffed up sense of ego that really has no place in the modern world. Sadly politics attracts those who also believe themselves also to be more than they are. Oh and just spotted this: please log in to view this image
Ah yes -apologies - you are correct. Of course there's many different ways to negotiate and their's appears to be "you are choosing to leave so tell us how you intend to do it and we'll decide if that works for us". On the face of it that seems harsh but who can blame them? I rather suspect that if France or Germany were leaving the same people accusing the EU of bullying would be screaming for them to hammer the relevant countries as hard as they could.
There was a leader in the Telegraph on Thursday which claimed that the flag if St George is far lovelier than the Belgian equivalent. Why anyone gives a monkey's about such things is beyond me but it does illustrate your point. The only other thing I'd say is I genuinely don't know how people in most other countries few themselves but certainly quite a few Irish and Australian people I know definitely have the same sense of superiority - I use these examples as they're the two countries I know most about through family connections et.
Totally agree. Why anyone thought the EU would give us a good deal is hard to fathom. Even if they had no desire to punish us (really?) they certainly would act in their interest to make sure the other members do not see leaving the Eu as a good idea. I have made the same point as you - if it had been Frexit we would have decided to give them a rubbish deal to "serve them right"
Talking to my son-in-law who until earlier this year worked in Belgium, he was telling me that there is a huge difference in how people from different backgrounds approach talks . If he was at a meeting with people from the French speaking part of the country, a scheduled meeting for 9.00 am would begin with general chat about what had individuals been up to since they last met, questions about families etc. and the business would get underway half an hour later, with a time limit of noon for lunch. That time limit ensured that a decision was reached, even if one or two had doubts. The ones from the Flemish speaking part of the country would be at the table ready to start spot on 9.00 am, but by noon they would still be undecided if a full stop was needed in a report, and by the time an agreement was reached lunch had finished being served. The EU is bound together by a set of rules to take account of these types of differences, which suit some and not others at various times. To believe that something that works most of the time for 27 countries should be altered to suit one is delusional. To have been at the table making the rules, then say you don't like them is even more potty.
Years ago when I lived in Toulouse I was in contact with many executives from various nations who worked for Airbus or associated businesses. They were amongst other parents connected to The International School, which was incidentally owned by Airbus. The general consensus was that most rubbed along very well together but they considered the French were the most difficult to work with although I cannot quite recall their reasons.
The Germans, particularly, have problems with the French way of doing business - and vica versa. The Germans have no problem doing business with a complete stranger whereas the French feel the need to get to know their partner socially first. A German will also do business first and then maybe go for something to eat, a Frenchman will tend to do it the other way around. So the German sees the Frenchman as 'wasting time', whereas the Frenchman often feels his German partner is simply not interested in them as people. Also Germans see a plan as being fixed, whereas the French see it as more of a rough blueprint which can be adapted if the situation demands it.
One can of course only go on personal experience. I did EU negotiations for 15 years (actually chaired two UN meetings on the EU's behalf) and we were always highly respected - and France held us in the highest regard. I did four different portfolios and regularly had bilateral meetings with them, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark and Ireland. The Commission used to come to the UK to see what our views were on different proposals before a lot of other Member States. It wasn't perfect and I'd never claim it was - but personally my experience of how the EU operates is rather different to the undemocratic, self serving, and screw the UK at all costs version currently being peddled. That said, I repeat that this can only be based on one's own views and experiences.
This appeared on my FB feed.... courtesy of Scientists for the EU: Theresa May’s pronouncements sound like they’re from a Lewis Carroll passage: “Brexit means Brexit” said the Maybot. “A thing should always mean itself,” said Alice, “and I suppose for those people who do know what it means, or think they do, the affirmation that it means itself is reassuring.” She paused, “but to those that don’t know what it means and see others fighting over its meaning, can you please say what it means, or should mean?” “But it does mean Brexit,” insisted the Maybot.
There will be a “common rule book” between the UK and EU on all goods, including agri-foods UK will commit by treaty to mirroring EU rules and face “consequences” if we ever seek to diverge on anything Their plan on regulatory alignment would “not allow the UK to accommodate a likely ask from the US in a future trade deal” re mutual recognition of standards. Number 10 say this does not rule out the chances of a US trade deal. The UK will accept EU rulings on all level playing field issues, environment and social policy, effectively maintaining ECJ jurisdiction in the UK. This has been taken from a pro-Brexit website and is four of the main points in the document that is to be discussed tomorrow. Very similar things have been reported elsewhere, so I guess they may be accurate. There is no knowing if something like this could be acceptable to the EU.
This sounds very much like the text for the implementation period so it's up to December 2020 - the little scamps
