I’d check this. I think either your manager or your HR are winging this. I don’t believe that if you have a proven illness that’s documented, that they have any grounds for disciplinary action. I have a lady friend here who was until recently a CIPD member, I’ll check with her.
Just reading up on this cannabis legalisation for medicinal purposes. I wonder if they'll fast track the impending bill through parliament.
It depends on who you work for, but sickness absence is an issue that most organisations treat using a barge pole. They hate it because it costs them money and productivity, so many will go through the motions of 'supporting people back to work' when in reality they are simply looking for ways to either invoke capability procedures with a view to getting rid, or looking at how they can retire people on medical grounds. This was one of the reasons I ended up leaving the NHS. I was that manager who had to haul people in and give them 'the chat' about helping them to get back to work, whilst all the time I was under huge pressure to try and move them out the door. I ****ing hated it as it went against every moral fibre in my body. You always get one or two people who are trying to blag sickness pay, they are easy to deal with, but 99% of the time it's genuine sickness. The irony in the NHS was that many of the people who were off sick, were off because of work placed stress.
Good luck mate. You might want to talk to ACAS too as they will help with employment law and they can act as an advocate for you. Just get all the fatcs, write everything down, record all of your conversations (not literally, but keep a record) and try to approach it all with a cool head. Also just to be aware, that whilst your union will support you, they might not take on your case unless they are certain they can win it. Give me a PM if you need any more info on this buddy as I've been involved with this stuff from a managerial perspective.
This doesn’t sound like what’s happened to Jasper though. It sounds as if he’s being given disciplinaries.
If he’s genuinely and provably sick, I’m not sure that’s right. I’ll check with the CIPD lady, she’ll know.
As I said above, most organisations will still have a procedure to deal with long term sickness absence. Which usually ends up with people being retired on medical grounds if they don't come back to work. It depends on the terms of reference, but most HR depts will deal with this stuff under the umbrella of their disciplinary/sickness procedures. Doesn't sound like that's the case with Jasper though, and it definitely sounds like he's he's being unfairly treated.
That’s what I thought too. It seems they want him out are looking for the cheapest way of doing it, but are on shaky ground with this.
If you have sick notes for all of your absences then issuing a final warning for sickness absence is a disciplinary **** up. Did they formally invite you in writing to a hearing today? If so did they spell out exactly what their issue was with your absence record? You can warn employees about the number of absences on fairly safe ground if they’re the Monday / Friday duvet day types who self cert their absence and keep it under the 5 working days. However, if someone has genuine health issues and each absence has been accompanied by Doctors notes, then as an employer you’ve not really got anywhere to go in terms of discip. What they can do however, is ask you if you’re prepared to have a ‘protected conversation’ with them, which if you agree they can spell out the fact that the situation is not working for them and they can legally offer you to terms to go, under what is now called a Settlement agreement. If you refuse the terms and don’t wish to negotiate then neither they nor you can ever refer back to it legally. The problem employees have now, is that the caring sharing Tories have slid in employment law changes in the last few years that most didn’t realise have happened. One of which is that the most you can now ever win at a tribunal for wrongful dismissal is the equivalent of 12 months salary, this would be reduced if you’d found alternative work in the meantime, and these cases can take 9 months to get to court. You should fight the warning, but be prepared for them to make your life difficult if they’ve already decided that you’re no longer in their plans.
He said he was already on an initial formal warning for his sick record though, so it depends what the circumstances of that are. Clearly he was unwell though (passing out at the wheel of his car) and then having a bereavement in the family would come under compassionate leave, so it sounds like his employers are being ****s about it.
They can eventually move people out on ill health grounds though if there's no prospect of them returning to work in an agreed time period.
If they’ve gone beyond the 6 month sickness payments limit, then there’s no real point, as the possibility of ****ing up the process is greater than the cost of simply leaving them on the books, which is **** all.
Cheers all for the support . A good friend who I fortunate to work with knows his stuff , he even has the unions blessing . He says first line managers in my place of work are HRs lap dogs . It’s not until I appeal to the next level , or the one after that , that the powers that be get twitchy feet . Sad imho .
My initial formal warning was for depression . Something they have kno2n about for years . I did not appeal it as I didn’t need the stress . Yes honestly . If you read my first post you will see what led to the second one .I know you have read it , I’m just saying . Coming in feeling utter **** because I was worried about my sick record , and being sent home by senior management .
