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Article: Our defence | Football, Liverpool

Discussion in 'Liverpool' started by Flappy Flanagan (JK), Aug 29, 2011.

  1. Flappy Flanagan (JK)

    Flappy Flanagan (JK) Well-Known Member

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    On Saturday Stan Collymoore made a very debatable comment on Talk Sport that caused a bit of a dissagreement between him and some listeners.

    He said that he feels Liverpool dont have a single top quality defender, and even though he thinks Agger and Skrtel are good, he feels Liverpool need two top of the range centre backs in before this transfer window endsif they truly want to compete.

    How do you feel about this? Agree? Disagree? or hate it?


    I had 4 thoughts in response.

    My first was that I feel Agger is actually a world class player, and if he had not had his injuries the whole world would know it.

    My second was that when rebuilding a team you cannot possible do every thing in one summer, it will just back fire. These players have to settle, gel and get to know each other.

    The next was that we have two really quality looking young centre backs in Kelly and Wilson, who in a few years could come into the side and do great. So should big money be spent on some one who may only be needed for three or so years.

    And finally, we had the best defensive record virtually every season under Rafa Benitez and the players haven't really changed.


    So... Discuss!
     
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  2. terrifictraore

    terrifictraore Well-Known Member

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    What is there to discuss, thought it was a proven fact that collymore talks ****e.
     
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  3. Ze

    Ze Well-Known Member

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    Collymore is a decent commentator, but a crap pundit.

    He says things for effect and gets carried away in the moment, I'd take everything he says with a huge pinch of salt.

    Carra was once a world class defender, but age has sadly drained his energy and now he his a veteran teaching the young'uns.
    Agger on his day is a world class defender, but catching him inbetween injuries is hard, and he needs to get over that in order to prove he is on.
    Skrtel is a decent defender, but not world class. He'd probably fit right into 12 first teams of the premier league, but he's just too rash to be a top notch defender.
    Coates (if he signs) has the potential to be a world class defender. He's going to need encouragement and time in order to properly realise his potential, but I can see him really making an impression of our defence if he gets a chance.
    Wisdom also the potential to be a world class defender, and having seen him in action I'm raring for him to have a go on the big stage.
     
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  4. Sharpe*

    Sharpe* Senior Member

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    Stan Collymore. Jesus what a turd.

    For the record I think Agger is quality, Carragher is getting replaced by 6ft 6 giant, and Enrique has been class.

    Right back is a problem, but Kelly will do just fine atm.
     
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  5. Eddie B

    Eddie B Member

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    Agger is superb, but if he means we don't have a Pique, a Vidic or a Lucio, he's right.
     
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  6. Muppetfinder General

    Muppetfinder General Well-Known Member

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    No doubt Collymoron thinks Jones and Smalling are world class.

    'World class' is a bogus term that nobody ever seems able to define properly.

    What we need are some world class pundits and commentators who don't spew cliches and received ideas every time they open their anything-to-get-the-ratings-up gobs.

    And you can tell 'em I said so.
     
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  7. Flappy Flanagan (JK)

    Flappy Flanagan (JK) Well-Known Member

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    My idea of world class is they could get into the any country in the worlds national side, or be among the best 3 players in their specialist position in the world.
     
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  8. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    I don't think I could name a "World Class" defender in the Premier League though.

    Reina
    Kelly Carragher Agger Enrique

    v
    De Gea
    Smalling Evans Jones Evra

    v
    Polish Guy
    Jenkinson Koscielny Djouru Traore

    v
    Hilario
    Bosingwa Terry Ivanovic Cole

    I would take that back 5 over any of the others that played at the weekend (I know some of them weren't strongest but that's not our fault).
     
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  9. luvgonzo

    luvgonzo Pisshead

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    Carra and Agger are a great but beyond that there is doubt but with Coates and Kelly as well as Skrtel I think we have enough in that position.
     
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  10. Rubadub

    Rubadub Well-Known Member

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    Collymore is a right twat to be fair. I think if/when we sign's Coates and we can keep D.Agger fit then we will be sorted.
     
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  11. The artist JerryChristmas

    The artist JerryChristmas "Massive old member"

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    Polish Guy...:D


    I hate to admit it but I think I'd be hard pushed to argue against Vidic being up there with the best in the world right now but from those line ups there aren't any others, the only ones who come even remotely close would be Cole (even though he's a tool) and probably Evra (but he's been suspect at international level so probably not even him).

    For me if Agger could play a full season or two then he is certainly capable of proving his quality both domestically and on a european stage and from what I've seen of Enrique he too could prove to be one of our buys of the decade (again fitness dependant). Martin Kelly will also develop hopefully into being a first team regular for years to come and Coates (if he signs) again looks like a player with big potential and to be newly established in a successful international team at the age of 20 is mighty impressive.

    Carra has been a hero for us and could probably never have been talked as being up there with the very greats of world football but is a hero to Liverpool. Whether or not he's world class, he has always been and will always be "Liverpool class" and that's good enough for me <ok>
     
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  12. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    Vidic 2-3 years ago I would have agreed with you as being one of the best, but the past couple of years I don't think he's been quite as good. Whether it's because he hasn't had a long term partner as Rio keeps getting injured I'm not sure.

    Cole, good defender, but he doesn't really score enough and his crossing isn't brilliant. Trying to think of the difference between him and Enrique and can't think of much? Only that Cole has done it for 4-5 years and Enrique has done it for 1?
     
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  13. Flappy Flanagan (JK)

    Flappy Flanagan (JK) Well-Known Member

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    I have to honest and say Vidic and Terry are world class in my opinion. That tackle Terry did to save Chelsea on Saturday was incredible.
     
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  14. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    Hes spot on. You have a good, solid reliable defence that will cope with most but it doesnt have a world class standard defender does it.

    Surprised he made this comment as generally his opinions are to be ignored as hes talks as much sense as a preacher.
     
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  15. UIR - Kagawa Powa

    UIR - Kagawa Powa New Member

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    Bollocks you would. You are not kidding anyone.

    Carragher is well beyond past it, Kelly isnt better that whats at United ( if you dont rate Smalling there is something wrong with you ) and Enrique is about th same as Evra though Evra still being out of form I will say Enrique is better. Jones/Evans are solid and they are not even our second best pairing ( Jones and Smalling ).
     
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  16. Elpistoleros magic feet

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    I agree with the OP.
    Rome was not built in a day. Some people are expecting FSG to fix everything in two transfer windows. This is impossible. If you look back at Man United in 2004, it took them 3 years to get it right when building a title winning team, when they were integrating new players. Kenny could only do so much in the time he had. The signing of Sebastian Coates will help.
    I'm just astounded by the transformation since January. What a difference a year makes, the squad is far far stronger than it was this time last year, the players look far happier. The fact is progress has been made, its not anywhere near perfect yet or was expected to be perfect yet, but we've progressed faster than expected. Liverpool have gone from a figure of fun, to a club that people are sitting up and taking notice of again.
    I'm just hoping that FSG don't stop investing and this transfer window is a one-off, however I tend to think its unlikely.
     
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  17. BCR

    BCR Well-Known Member

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    I feel right back could be a problem IF Kelly and Johnson can't stay healthy. Flano has done well but still very green and I would want an experienced cover. That why we are hinting at Vargas? Just in case he can play one side and enrique the other?

    DON'T START with " Well Skrtel looked good on the weekend" Bolton did nothing to attack him, he cannot play RB and Carra is getting on and teams that have some pace ( mata,malouda, nani, young, lennon, ex) will eat him alive.
     
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  18. Smudger

    Smudger Active Member

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    World class is hard to define. I use it to mean a player would get into any side in the world, which is very few players. Speaking as a neutral, I'd say Liverpool have a good enough defence for a top 4 side, but none are at the level of a Pique/Vidic etc. From my years of watching Enrique, I'd say he's your best defender.
     
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  19. InBiscanWeTrust

    InBiscanWeTrust Rome, London, Paris, Rome, Istanbul, Madrid
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    You say it's bollocks, but then just admit that Enrique is at the moment better than Evra. Reina is no doubt miles ahead of Dea Gea. Smalling is a CB and I think he will be an England regular but he isn't a RB. Kelly may not be any better, but he certainly isn't any worse? Evans isn't good enough in my opinion and Agger beats him hands down. Carragher you say is past it but he still had the pace to get back at Petrov on Saturday and his organisational skills are 2nd to none.
     
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  20. moreinjuredthanowen

    moreinjuredthanowen Mr Brightside

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    el pistolero makes the right point about us building we've done very well this summer but equally we all know where the gaps lie. we can see right now that and so can the hacks i nthe press and pundit land.

    I also think the arsenal model of hoping some young lad will cut it is wrong. collymore may be a bit of a clown but i think his point could be made in that only today matters when it comes to results. wilson, kelly... who knows.. .add wisdom and coady to that list... who on earth knows if they really can cut it.

    right now... today... agger and carragher is not ideal and we can all see why, carrgher is seriously slowing down and agger is injury prone. If we get coates it's an amazing progressiion from last may. Agger looks fit right now and is looking strong, carragher doesn't look very good though.

    I just want to say one thing...... being HAPPY with our own progression doesn't require pissing all over other teams players.... just be objective. Utd have smalling, jones, ferdinand and vidic and i really rate all 4 as very good players.... vermealen at arsenal is top drawer too. Luiz and terry are as well. We don't need to write off other teams players just cos collywobbles says we've no decent CBs.
     
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