OK -not here from tomorrow so I will leave some parting thoughts. Sean Dyche finished 11th in his one season with us. Not bad but does anyone really blame the Pozzos for thinking this was not inspiring enough to get us into the Prem in their desired timeframe? Was Zola not a better bet for new owners looking to create something dynamic? How many people really regretted the appointment of Zola - who took us to 3rd in his first season? The next manager who did not quit or leave through ill health (leaving the "mistake" McKinlay out of it) was Jokanovic. His contract ended and the club were not able to meet his demands. We do not know what they were or how far apart they were. However most of us were surprised and sorry to see him go. With hindsight as no manager since has been better it is easy to argue the Pozzos should have met whatever his demands were. Since then who is really going to argue Watford should have kept QSF, Mazz or Silva? So what is the "case" against the Pozzos? That they did not stay with a mediocre looking manager they inherited and they should have made more effort to keep Jokanovic. I will agree with the second but not the first. So they have one manager wrong - perhaps and assuming he could have done the job. The only real case is that they should be able to find and hire a better quality manager than they have. OK - so assuming they could even attract a better quality to a small club like ours - which managers did they fail to find for us? I submit the Pozzos have in fact a very respectable record regarding managers.
Any other issues probably stem from this Leo. Jokanovic came to do a job, achieved it well, and was sent packing. Quique Flores came to steer us through the difficult first season in the Premiership, achieved it, and was sent packing. Since then it is difficult to know what a manager has to do to earn a second season. Both those managers would have been better managers if given a second year. So it is hardly surprising that if managers are tapped up by other clubs in mid season that they become interested in offers - if they think they will be gone at the end of the season anyway. Obviously fast rotation of managers has been accompanied by fast rotation of players, en masse, only about a third of whom have been usable. This whole filtering process, and having to keep a large squad happy, together with language problems, has made being manager at the club a hard job. It must be obvious that if you take eg. a young Brazilian into a completely different language, culture, and climate, living away from his family and friends that his performances will suffer.
Harsh - sent packing. Contract ended and both parties unable to agree new contract is more accurate - but I agree - probably a mistake. QSF - last 20 games and only 16 points - clear relegation form after a good start. How long would fans have accepted him if the next season started as his one finished? Yes perhaps with him and Mazz and Silva the Pozzos are guilty of deciding a manager achieving less than a point per game over an extended period should go. I wonder how many fans beleive any of the three would have succeeded. I am still firmly of the belief that I am only sorry regarding Jokanovic
Could it be Leo that their difficulty in finding and hiring better quality managers lies in the fact that only a small pool of managers are prepared to work within their system ? The dip in form towards the end of every season needs to be explained - could it lie in the insecurity which starts creeping in - not knowing which jobs are safe, and so on ? On the positive side all of those managers between them have contributed to us surviving 3 seasons in the Premiership without once being in a relegation position - some of the football played has been wonderfull and we have beaten some very good teams in that time. They were not all bad managers and I would venture to suggest that any one of them would have been able to learn from the mistakes of their first season and improve in the second.
There could be another reason which does have something to back it up. Joka couldn't agree what he wanted to be paid. Silva was being paid about £1.5M going by his claim for compensation. It has been reported that some of the larger clubs are paying twice, thrice or even four times that. Maybe some thought they were underpaid, despite being out of work at the times they signed their contracts.
Considering that they are managing players who are earning more then it would not be surprising. TD earns nearly 5 Million per year (if earn is the right word), Andre Gray 3 million, even Karnezis earns 2 million. Maybe the club should think over their priorities in this case.
I have heard it said more than once that managers don't often get what the players do. Don't think this is a problem just for Watford, but as the job in the PL is unlikely to be long term at any club, then it is understandable that a manager will want to do the best for himself while he can.
I am sure it was QSF that invoked the break clause in his contract, rather than was 'sent packing' by the club. It was his decision. Despite all the times that the press and other clubs fans comment on the turn over of head coaches at Watford; Zola, Sannino and QSF all resigned, and Garcia gave up through ill health. I have a feeling that despite Jokanavic 'not agreeing a new contract' that QSF had already been identified as the Head Coach for the first season in the premiership anyway. Identified as someone who will make the team difficult to beat and well organised. It appears to me that it was always the plan to make sure we stayed up that first difficult season, and that QSF was the man to make sure we did. I don't think we give enough credit to the Pozzo's for succession planning, an important part of running any business.
A football club is more than a business Goldentrue. It is a history made up of legends, memories and longer lasting identification both with players and with managers. Above all it is about continuity. If fans go to the stadium on the first day of the season having to learn the names of a whole host of new players, and a new manager to boot, year in year out then the thread which binds many fans to the club will be lost - and without us there is no club.
My nephew is not, or was not the greatest of football fans cologne, but his son was picked out for a trial at Watford. He spent a couple of seasons training with the coaches from the club before they said he was really not going to be good enough. However he is now an ardent Watford fan, and his dad has now become one. They have season tickets, and when I was last over with them, all they wanted to talk about was WFC. In a sense they have taken over from me and my non-attendance. They do not have the history that I do, but they will create a new one. You and I remember things that mean nothing anymore to the younger generations, but the club is still there, far healthier than it was in those days of the past. Fans come and go for various reasons, in the same way players and managers do. The big difference of course is the amount of money they leave with.
I disagree completely, I have been supporting WFC since early sixties, in all four divisions including the wonderful GT/EJ days. One of the most exciting seasons was the Pozzos / Zola's first year with the mad influx of talented foreign talent, eventually we leant the strange new names. Vydra, Abdi, Forestieri etc. The attacking football was brilliant, they just couldn't defend very well! I can assure you the VR stands are stuffed with old timers like me who will look forward to the new season just as much as in days gone by. The ground, including the pitch is now superb, the facilities are improved greatly each year. Maybe you haven't visited WD18 for a while?
It is quite obvious that my visits to WD18 are less often than for others. this is a disadvantage in some ways but an advantage in others. If you are living in the middle of something on a daily basis you often do not notice the changes - they just creep up on you. After a long absence you are more open to them. The question is what you want from a football club. Do you want something which has been rooted in a community for over a hundred years, or something like a travelling circus ? Do you want to cheer for a group of strangers managed by a temporary visitor, all owned by people who never knew the name of your town until a few years ago ? I know that many of the English football fans of today have turned our game into a consumer product, but for others, like myself, it is a part of our culture and heritage.
Maybe it is partly an age thing Cologne.... I completely agree... that is not to say that I dont enjoy us today.... but given the choice I would much prefer the earlier set up across the board...and across much of football
As there is a waiting list for season tickets at WFC there seems to be no shortage of supporters willing to pay handsomely to watch the team fashioned by the Pozzos. Bizarrely, I have not heard anywhere near the level of insults from the terraces towards coaches employed by the Pozzo as painfully endured by GT on some occasions. You are of course entitled to your opinion but the many thousands of long term supporters who still regularly attend matches are less concerned with living in the past. There were dreadful periods of dire football before the Pozzos took over including tenures belonging to 'our boys' GT, Harrison, Jackett etc. which often tested the wisdom of undying continued support. As GT told me himself, supporters expectations at clubs the size of Watford are rarely met, especially after we finished 2nd in the old first division.
Linton, Bell, Nicholas, Catleugh, McNeice, Chung, Benning, Uphill, Holton, Hartle, Bunce. I can still list this team from memory, can still picture every face, and still remember the great football they produced. Unfortunately half of them are no longer alive, and yet for me they will never be forgotten. This is a part of my personal Watford history, but most on here would not have seen them. I look back to 60 years ago with pleasure, but realise that football was a very different game in those days. Heavy footballs and pitches, players only one step up from slaves, directors who spent half their time trying to raise enough money to keep the club afloat. Time has brought about many changes in most things. We don't rely on the paper seller with the football results in the stop press to tell us what has happened, we can see far more information on a mobile phone as we walk up to the top of Market Street where the man sold his papers. We can no longer turn up and hand over our sixpence at the turn style. Unless we can live close enough to travel to most games and buy a season ticket, then it becomes a rather expensive afternoon out. It is all so different, but is it better or worse? A bit of both I think. Better ground, better players, too expensive, too money orientated, too much fear of failure. I no longer try to compare two things that are so different. What memories I have will stay, but I enjoy the days when I see some skills from players that we may only have the pleasure of seeing for a season or two.
Im a young en have just done 52 years there will never be anther Duncan (chopper) Welbourne .A few years ago i paid 26 pound for a signed 69/70 squad pic but there was only 14 signed and he is not one of them .Last year for my birthday the wife paid for it to be coated and framed so it cannot fade its now on my wall .The days of lining up to get your cup tickets from Ron R in the office under the main stand and standing on the cinders bend at the same time as SEJ (before he moved upstairs) are long gone I want whats best for Watford and in the current world thats the Pozzos and long my they reign
My senior ticket for next season in the excellent SEJ stand will work out at £16.50 per game. I consider this superb value to watch some of the world's best players such as Kevin De Bruyne, Mo Salah or Sergio Aguero ply their trade. The Hornets also possess foreign imports with incredible skills, a far cry from watching journeymen like Mick Packer trying to chop the winger in half!! The match day experience, in my view, is far far superior today than in the past.
Exactly the team I saw at my first game! We must have been next to each other. Happy (& much less complicates) days
This was my first, I believe!, It was 1962 0-0 against Portsmouth on the cinder bank by the rookery... drab, gray, dull, boring...... absorbing and unforgettable.... hooked line and sinker.... and so happy to have started watching us in that era... please log in to view this image
