Speaking to some Villa fans on Sunday, they were most unhappy at the thought of being in the Championship for another season as they think are a big club. I asked them why they thought that, and was reminded that they were founder members in 1888, had won the European cup, the league 7 times and the FA Cup 7 times. They were quite put out when I said that didn't make them a big club any more. They argued that Chelsea and Man City are not big clubs as they have bought their success thanks to Mr Abramovich and Mr Mansour - so I reminded them that before that they too had each won a European trophy, as well as the old Football League title, and they remain the only clubs in the country to have attracted 80,000-plus attendances to a club match on their own ground. Manchester United are still without doubt England's biggest club, as they have the biggest ground, most supporters and have won a major honour in each of the last eight decades. They struggled between the wars but were a powerful force in the early years of the century. After that there is Liverpool, trophy winners in nine of the last 12 decades and with huge global support, then Arsenal, who have the longest unbroken run in the elite, since 1919. Shefield Wednesday fans think they are a big club still - but are they? They haven't won anything since 1935 but retained a "big club" image for many years because Hillsborough staged FA Cup semi-finals. Tragically, that status was not matched by their stadium management. You lot think Leeds are still a big club - but you're not. Though shaped by the past, football lives in the present. Unfortunately, now that we live in the internet age, "big clubs" are only going to get bigger. In the early days clubs were constrained by the size of their hometown populations: thus the clubs fed by the big conurbations of London, Manchester and Merseyside eclipsed the cotton and Industrial towns like Leeds. Now the entire global population can be tapped: witness the multilingual club websites being created to build on the Premier League's worldwide TV coverage - something your owner is expert at yet claims to know fook all about football, So what do you think makes a club BIG?
Not fishing Este - was surprised that they thought they were still a big club. Same as when you hear some of the older Leeds fans claiming you are sleeping giants! There are 30 clubs in England that are most certainly bigger than Leeds right now - not us though we are about the same
Having read approx 4m football site threads on this topic, and similar topics, I have 2 golden rules: 1. If the OP does not define what he means by ‘big club’ then you are bound to end up with a lot of heat but little light, deliberately because the OP was on a fishing trip 2. The OP is always on a fishing trip People will say team X is not a big club because of their current and recent lack of success. Others will say they are because fans make a club and they have a huge fan base. It’s so boring, the debate is really about the correct definition of ‘big club’.
Pretty sure I did define what a big club was but I'll humour you and post it again "Manchester United are still without doubt England's biggest club, as they have the biggest ground, most supporters and have won a major honour in each of the last eight decades. They struggled between the wars but were a powerful force in the early years of the century. After that there is Liverpool, trophy winners in nine of the last 12 decades and with huge global support, then Arsenal, who have the longest unbroken run in the elite, since 1919."
No you didn't - you expressed an opinion! And therein lies the problem that 2020 has highlighted. Is it achievements that makes a club big? Is it revenue? Is it attendance figures? Is it sales of club strips? All of the above? None of the above? So many possible variations, and all almost certainly influenced by affiliation. So 2020 is right. Debates such as the one you're trying to instigate will never lead anywhere unless there is an agreed definition of 'big club'. And there never will be. Not an attack or cast or any of that nonsense - just a simple fact.
Here in Australia, in Queensland to be precise, we had a new Rugby League club in Townsville, the North Queensland Cowboys. As with all new clubs they had to find their feet and were none too successful in their first seasons. However, they were lauded by the local media in Townsville as a 'Big Club' due, mostly, to the large number of fans they attracted each week and the amount of club paraphernalia they sold. The media seemed to ignore the fact that the crowds were attracted by the visiting clubs that were already established in the game, the bigger the club, the bigger the attraction. Clubs that were bottom of the table competitors drew less crowds than those that were top of the pops. Club colours, flags, geurnseys etc were, of course popular because there was nothing else. It took several seasons before the Cowboys became competitive in the comp but even after having won a premiership they still have not achieved the status of a Big Club. As Whitejock implies, it isn't achievements or any of the other indicators he alludes to that make a Big Club. It is, in my opinion, an indefinable concept that cannot be pinpointed. Clubs can be successful or not, but either way doesn't necessarily make them big.
No you didn’t, you picked a club who most would consider undeniably ‘big’ , and are so by most definitions, and listed several factors (you could have listed more that also apply to them) that make them big. Thereby leaving full scope for maximum fishing.
Couldn't care less TC regarding my club is bigger than yours. I'm not one of those fans who think that. The only thing I'll say is that ever since Sky took over, football IMO has become an uneven playing field. Unlike back when I remember football, when only the Champions of each countries top leagues qualified for the European cup. The money now is obscene, how can a player care or be hungry to win or lose games. So to answer your question, I think a big club is one that even though they are playing crap, can still average 30,000 plus home gates and nearly always sell out their away allocation. But as the song goes,"We're not famous anymore".
All I know is with 6,000 fans and never won a thing,no away following of note,no one gives a fook about,millwall are in the bottom 10, for smallest clubs in the 4 leagues.
