It's not my wish Mupp, you misunderstood me, I was talking about the wishes of those that are in favour of it and expect their clubs to install it if it becomes legal in English football.
Yes I've read about the food bank stuff it's the sort of thing you expect from a union isn't it, looking out for each other and actually following Shankly's views on socialism.
It sure is, their hierarchy are very socialist/trade union minded, I know one of the high ups very well and he's on his way up the local Labour Party ladder and is a staunch Corbinista.
The practicalities of a switch would be what? Using the Kop ( purely as an example) go from 12.3k to 22k. Where do the extra 12 come from? The season ticket waiting list? How many on that want to stand. I'll assume the existing Kop goers are diehard and will remain standing or not but say there are ones that still want a seat where does the club put them? Since safe seating isn't the free for all... what if you're 4ft and get put behind giants? Will the gradient be big enough to get past this? I'm sure there's more issues (other than the big ones regarding LFC)
I think it’s simple. Standing didnt cause the iasue at hillsborough. Overcrowding and poor policing did. So as long as it doesn’t cause poor policing and overcrowding then referring back to the tragedy shouldn’t really be a consideration?
How many of those people were standing though? You can’t say the atmosphere was great in an all seater stadouj bevause we all know most of them will be standing, in sitting areas, making it more dangerous and restricting views to those around them.
But with allocated seating you can see with your own eyes how many fans there are or should be.With standing you can't. Don't give these ****s any more excuses to get away with being incompetent **** stains.
I think there are several issues, lateral movement being one. Numbered seats and CCTV make it easy to spot troublemakers.
If you listened to the personal account of the Mum who lost her son who said he wouldn't have died from compression asphyxia had he been seated, you couldn't put aside her wishes purely in the name of a 'better atmosphere'. Also a seated area couldn't possibly get overcrowded so the 'standing didn't cause it' argument while it wasn't THE cause of it, had fans been seated it couldn't possibly have got to a stage of mass asphyxiation.
Oh I'm just raising the questions mate. You're right.... standing in areas with seating designed specifically for sitting is arguably more dangerous and impeding others than safe standing areas themselves. So say the Kop as standing and then a zero tolerance approach to anyone standing elsewhere? As for atmosphere I think there's 2 arguments. Did seating completely destroy the atmosphere? Our club on occasions proves otherwise. . Looking at the likes of Crystal Palace ...the same. Surely whats going on the pitch has a lot to do with it too. Is the atmosphere as good as pre seating... depends on your version... sound wise? No. Not being shoved, pissed on , no view for the thing you paid for ... giving arseholes courage in mob anonymity? Does safe standing resolve some of those issues...it seems to.... but then those resolutions mean it still won't be the same as pre seating atmosphere either. So cost wise, and difficulty to overcome as F says it'll be up to each club to decide if it's worth the effort. Most clubs have spent the last 15 or do years trying to target families have they not? This would seem like a big step away from it. I genuinely don't fall strongly one way or the other... I don't go to enough games for my opinion to be taken into account tbh
everything said here is spot on Issues: 1. The kop seating is "snug" shall we say. 2. The safe standing recommended size to fit more people in is wider. so you cannot get many more people into kop unless the whole thing is redone and realistically it can't be higher rake nor bigger 3. if you stand you have to get a discount. simple as. so if you can't get more in without rebuilding and you have to charge less all you would be doing is buying a few seats and sticking 1:1 and then converting the Kop from a seating to a standing area. 4. not all will want standing so you are forcing some off kop then. 5. you need to have ticketed access, you need to have proper stewarding still and you need to be able to evacuate and get to exits in same time... so existing exits.. there are not enough. This really boils down to this. to get 2 people into one persons seating space you need a wide area. somewhere like a west brom or where ever might have had wide enough pitch is a small stand and can pile twice as many people in at 70% of the ticket price. then it make sesne At anfield it makes little sense unless a 1 to 1 conversion. if done then That goes back to FSG? point on who wants to pay full whack to stand as standing has to be at a discount so we are asking club to spend to put them in then reduce prices as well. WHILE might i add we demand them to build anfield road end for 70-100 mil
TBH.... if you opened the gates wide open and piled in people into a caged box which is what happened. its not the same CURRENTLY as funnelling ticketed people to specific blocks which are then open to the pitch (if not upper tier of a stand) I would have to say currently as there is nothing to stop someone putting in safe seating and then a year later throwing up fencing again. We must remember hillsborough was caused by a police man opening the gates. It is a neutral ground out of control scenario. I would ask.. if an FA cup SF were at wembley would you go to a "safe standing area"
thanks but just going off what i've read really. If certain gorunds like west brom have the row width they can double capacity if exists allow for miniscule investment. Palace would like to do so. I think places like st mary's would be suitable but we know here that even the lower part of main stand while better is still snug compared to brand new top tier. The kop is wedged. the anfield road is wedged. a lot of them are actually under legal minimum for leg room per regs.
The standing wasn't the issue though, it was the processes of letting fans into the ground and the caged stands which trapped everyone. If there was standing at Anfield, there would be a limited number of tickets of which everyone goes through a ticket gate to a structured and correctly location to stand. There is no longer fences in front of the fans either. Personally I think enough systems have been put in place to ensure a Hillsborough never happens again.
one might argue that this is the first dismantling of those systems? whats to say this won't be followed by some rule to stop people invading the pitch or throwing stuff on that sees plexi glass put up. that's the trust thing. I think personally the small section in celtic and trials around europe have been successful #I would expect celtic to expand what they have done to upper tier and around as its one corner and i'd imagine one end needs to be done.
Dortmund are a good example, they have been doing it for years and switch to seating for European games.
I've thought for years that clubs need to consider installing something to at least slow down ingress onto the pitch as atm hop over advertising hoarding take a couple of steps and you're on the pitch. Wembley have that metal framework arrangement but for lots of clubs is there enough room for any effective system.
