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This season's income

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Consett Mag, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    What you're saying is that since Rafa Benitez arrived, Mike and Lee have been brilliant, and before then were crap at best......am I the only one spotting the small coincidence?

    I've already said credit where it's due to the club for making Rafa manager. But everything else is down to the Spaniard. If Mike & Lee had made one of their more usual appointments, we'd be bottom. Scratch that, we'd never have been promoted. Hearsay, yes, but purely based on previous history. And correct me if I'm wrong, but you're a HUGE advocate of the work Hughton did, a bloke who fell into the job rather than an astute appointment.
     
    #81
    Consett Mag and GeordieHalfbreed like this.
  2. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    No I think they've been brilliant since the appointment of McClaren - though I'd argue it was a bad move, many on here thought it was a good one and he deserved a chance. Many in the game thought it was a good fit. He was subsequently backed with huge funds as Rafa has been. They've both had good moments throughout their time with the club. They appear to have learnt from their mistakes and are now doing much better, getting the deals done for the manager and players, getting the background stuff right. It all needs people to acknowledge it but unfortunately a fair portion of our fans are morons who prefer to get stuck on a negative hamster wheel.

    Its comical to suggest all the work that has gone on is down to Rafa. He is one man, and one part of a management team. He himself concedes this and says he is in constant contact with Charnley. Its not for a cup of tea and to discuss the decor in his office. To give Rafa credit for this season, you also have to give credit to Mike and Lee. Simple as that really. He can't do his job without them. I don't doubt that the work that is being done around getting the club set up right is driven by Benitez in quite a few areas as he has vast experience and has worked at Europes elite. He knows what needs to change. However to achieve it he needs a management team around to have their own input and also make things happen.

    When he was on his knees in January after a floundering spell that was part about strength of squad and part about his own failures, they didn't hang him out to try. They went out and got 3 quality additions. We did the best business in the league by far despite them being loans. No one has had the upturn we've had. That isn't just down to Rafa - Charnley did those deals. Rafa had jackshit to do with it by his own admission "he just gives them the names".

    I wouldn't say I was a HUGE advocate of Hughton either. I think he did a solid job under trying circumstances. Far more trying than those Rafa has had. He didn't have a pot to piss in. Like Rafa it wasn't great to watch but it was effective and it got the job done.

    As for the hearsay its just rubbish for me. If we'd given 70m to get out of the championship to quite a few managers they'd have got promoted. To be honest the likes of Hughton, Pardew, Keegan I would have backed to get us out. The other full time appointment under Ashley, McClaren maybe not. It matters not they appointed Rafa and for that they deserve a massive portion of the credit alone. You can't have it both ways. Its all their fault when things go wrong, but nothing to do with them when it goes right. Football clubs never survive on the deeds of one individual. Not in the modern world.

    Just get on the Mike and Lee appreciation train and accept you were wrong

    Choo choo

    All aboard

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    #82
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  3. Delusional Full Stop

    Delusional Full Stop Here to serve all your counselling needs.
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    There’s more fiction in that post than in the Central Library.

    <laugh> <laugh> <laugh>
     
    #83
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  4. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    All Rafa facts
     
    #84
  5. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    You read it? I got as far as brilliant then unhooked myself.
     
    #85
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  6. Albert's Chip Shop

    Albert's Chip Shop Top Grafter
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    T
     
    #86
  7. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    I lost interest at the No.
     
    #87
  8. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    Any post by him over 1 paragraph in length and I don't bother.
     
    #88
  9. JakartaToon

    JakartaToon Well-Known Member
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    What have I done now?
     
    #89
  10. JakartaToon

    JakartaToon Well-Known Member
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    I am pleased to see that Free-Dor thinks that Mike is only selling the club because he cant take it on to the next level. I would suspect he could do if he wanted - he just doesnt want to put his money into it.
    However presumably if he has the best interests of the club at heart he won't sell to anybody who meets his asking price but only those who show business plans that include significant investment in the playing side.
    I will sleep a lot easier this weekend now knowing this.
     
    #90

  11. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    <laugh> The delusions of a Newcastle fan. You can't take on the wealth of the Arabs with your meagre little billions (most of which isn't even accessible)
     
    #91
  12. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I think we’re more concerned about the might of Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton. Nobodies asking for a title challenge, just a competent exec team and a possible growth plan, which might include a sponsor paying actual cash. Our plan was all about how little we could invest.
     
    #92
  13. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    We are competing well with Burnley, Bournemouth and Brighton with our current model - and outspending them too. Have a gander at the table and figures on transfer spend.

    Mike just realises he can't step up to the top 6 level because some of them have silly money he can't compete with behind them.
     
    #93
  14. Consett Mag

    Consett Mag Well-Known Member

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    I think it's not a reasonable comparison to judge us against established Premiership clubs who've been receiving large incomes well above their locally generated income. But here are the numbers fwiw -
    From Transfer markt:
    After receiving £47m from winning the championship, inc parachute - We spent £44m
    After receiving about £108m from finishing 16th in the Premiership, Burnley spent £35.7m
    After receiving about £122m from finishing 9th in the Premiership, Bournemouth spent £34m plus 'free' Defoe.
    • Defoe reportedly gets £130k per week wages - £6.7m in wages this year. So that brings up their spend to around £40m this year.
    After receiving about £5m from the Championship, Brighton spent £64m - significantly more than us, from a smaller club.

    And for comparison with our other promoted rival Huddersfield - who have even less local income than Brighton:
    After receiving about £4m from the Championship Huddersfield spent £56.8m

    So we've spent more than the above established Premiership sides, but have spent way below our promoted rivals. Not saying we should take unreasonable financial risks, perhaps as Brighton and Huddersfield have done, but you'd think that our income would have significantly more robustness than two clubs who get less in their grounds than rock bottom and in total free fall Sunderland,
     
    #94
  15. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Yes but you also have to consider historical spend. There are players still in our squad being used who were purchased 3-4 year ago. We have spent significantly more than Brighton and Huddersfield over a three year period. Unfortunately the numbers you get through the gate no longer has the impact on your ability to trade it did many moons ago. Its all about TV Money and commercial work. We are probably a bigger name than those mentioned above in terms of recognition worldwide. We should get more money than all bar Burnley from our league placing and gate receipts. Our commercial work needs to improve but we are not a big name like your Manchester clubs, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal, Spurs. After those clubs, Asia, US etc don't have a lot of interest in the rest of the clubs. So the commercial differences between clubs is minimal. There is a reason clubs can go from 8th to a relegation battle in no time. The differences once the TV money is dolled out is not great. It is all about how your club is managed, your scouting after that. The spend is all much of a muchness.

    I think we will once again outspend them all in the summer. However if we splash 77m this time, we are going to have to spend it well and manage it a hell of a lot better than last time. To be fair I think Rafa will do a better job if you give him 70-80m worth of talent than McClaren did. I'm just not convinced we have generated that kind of money, hopefully we have once we sell.

    Honestly all joking aside, our club do spend money. Whether its net spend or pure spend, over a 3 year period we've spent well in comparison to many of our nearest competitors. It will still never be enough to breach the chasm to the top 7, but we can compete with the Burnley's and Leicester for top half finishes. The truth is the money went on ok players, but a numbskull got them relegated and Rafa has been working our way back ever since. He has had some money to do it though. I don't think many others have had 90m-100m in two seasons.
     
    #95
  16. haslam

    haslam Well-Known Member

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    Why go back 3 years? Why not 5 years to include the sale of Cabaye (a year we made a healthy profit) or 2 years? Oh it's so you can specifically include the one year we had a spending spree which warps all the figures. Cool. Oh and ignore the gate receipts which gives us an irrelevant £10m+ extra revenue over all but the top few clubs and London clubs.

    I actually agree with most of your post that I glanced over to be fair. Just the bullshit parts. Didn't agree with those as much.
     
    #96
  17. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    I think he may be on to you Free-Dor.
     
    #97
  18. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Two fold really. One it’s about demonstrating a clear change in how the club have operated. That was as I’m sure you remember the time Ashley made it clear he’d do everything within the clubs means to achieve the best we can.

    Secondly it would be unfair to judge the club on 2 years as our spend is inflated by sales from the PL, and conversely if you look at net spend, the sales are inflated by relegation. It’s seems to give a lopsided view. Whereas if you take that over 3 years you get a semblance of balance.

    Also managers often talk about squad regeneration taking three years and that is the minimum time they should get to get a squad how they want. That is less important because we had to change the manager after year one due to incompetence.

    I would not ignore gate receipts. I acknowledged now we have got to this stage, we should be able to compete at the top end of our bracket of the third tier clubs in the PL. some if that is down to gate receipts. 10-15m can be negated by other things but it still plays a part. I still think the Everton’s and Leicester have an advantage in that regardless of gates they have owners willing to overspend massively from personal fortunes. It’s difficult to compete. Plus they have additional value in their squad and Everton have an outstanding academy with probably 11 players who are capable of playing PL first team football in the next 3 years. That’s massive financially.
     
    #98
  19. cronemeister

    cronemeister Well-Known Member

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    Since Klopp took over in 2015, the net spend for the top 6 is as follows :-

    Man City £371m
    Man Utd £252m
    Arsenal £86m
    Chelsea £72m
    Spurs £19m
    Liverpool £5m

    The reds have sold 17 players and bought 10 since klopp took over. Granted the quality of players that they had prior to him coming was pretty decent to start with but it only takes a few good deals in the transfer market and a few players being brought through the club before you start to turn over figures like that. Hopefully Rafa is thinking along the same lines...if we’re at a similar sort of level in 3-5 years time I’ll be happy but it all comes down to who’s in charge at the end of the day. We’ve got a world class manager, and the infrastructure to be certainly in the top 8 every season, with a bit of nouse we could be top 6 and realistically should be.
     
    #99
  20. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    In effect Man City should be banned from football.
     
    #100

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