It's not a question of unquestioning support as I have been vocal about mistakes made by our government in the past and will do in the future. Moaning about something in normal day to day politics is completely different to a Chemical attack on our home soil causing life-threatening injuries to innocent people. I am astounded that people try to make similarities. In fact it is also different to that lying toad Blair's WMD's. My support is that our bloody country has fallen victim to this attack and I will support the people who are standing up to the twat/s that did this. I don't care if it is a Tory/labour/LibDem/Green UKIP government I would support them.
It was a joke mate, bit of sarcasm. Emotive words - fallen victim. Have we? Really? This is a dangerous situation being handled by dangerous people without regard for the rules that they agreed to and should abide by. Why is it different to WMD in Iraq? Why aren't they behaving responsibly? Why are the nauseating corporate media feeding us the story and not asking questions?
I will try and answer. 1. WMD's in Iraq was not an attack on British soil but something that was passed by the UN security council. Believe me, I was against it and knew they were lying. Blair and his cronies were treacherous 2222's. The whole thing as we now was made up . You cannot compare that to the attack in Salisbury as it is an actual attack with victims. There are no maybe's, it happened. 2. Because Russia never behaves responsibly. 3. The media are reporting this outrage and so they should. Last week they were accused for overplaying the bad weather. If a nuke hits London and kills 3 million people would that suffice? Also regarding media and information (and this is not you Woody). It's funny when we are told this and that media/information has an agenda yet the information others look at is correct? Like people that say I don't listen to what the media says I got mine from somewhere else. Information is information. I look at both sides of the coin and make a decision (with a little help from my Jack Russel dog).
Only time will tell if any similarities can be drawn between this and WMD. So far, all we have is a reported event, a government response, which fails to abide by the rules and a corporate media response which backs up the official line and belittles challenge. Not great so far. You're absolutely right about examining all sides. It's what I'm doing too and it's what the almighty should be doing before they attempt to speak for us all and develop a potentially very nasty situation. Do you really have no scepticism whatsoever?
...we also have flat out denial from the accused, a denied request for evidence, a denied request for involvement in the investigation and as of now, no sample offered to the independent body for testing and matching, although did I hear Johnson suggest they would be coming to England this/next week?
If it hadn't been this type of nerve agent and it was anyone other than Putin and Russia then I may have questioned it. There has been talk of the stuff going to another country after the break up of the Soviet Union in 1991. That has already been refuted just today by a leading chemical expert who said the toxicity of the stuff declines over time and if it had been taken then, it would be rendered useless today. This stuff was made recently they can tell. Sorry but you really need to ask a question, can you make this stuff in your kitchen? The answers no. I said when first discussing this, that you cant get this stuff from Lidl's. I will now ask the same question I did the other day. If you don't think it's Putin then tell me who it is? All roads lead to Moscow.
flat out denial from the accused... Tud Bundy denied killing those girls. a denied request for evidence, a denied request for involvement in the investigation and as of now... Why should we allow Russia to get involved with a crime scene? Do we let murders go over a crime scene? no sample offered to the independent body for testing and matching eer completely wrong, the inspectors are there today. They have been working very hard in Syria trying to work out the nerve agent used recent.
How do I know?!? All I know is what I hear and read. The official line is being rightly challenged, due to the order of reaction (suspect, accuse, expell, investigate). The media behave in a completely partial manner. I have read though that the inspectors from holland are now on the scene, so let's see.
that evidence ellers next you'll know have you not seen any of the james bond films... those sneaky dirty foreigners, especially those ruskies
I sincerely give sympathy to Putin on this matter. This is a perfect example of jumping on the media band wagon ... it's become fashionable on SM to pick a name and then band together a lot of tripe. We love to shoot someone down. I am very unhappy that this has been played out in the media re the Russians. I hope that finally people become so sick of SM it loses all it's power. Copying and pasting ****e is not a skill First Macdonalds then Ryanair, Trump and finally Jake Bidwell. We know very little about what is true or not .. apart that Bidwell does his very best in each game for our team
I have no idea who done this and wouldn't be surprised if it was a rogue or even the UK I would love this to blow up in the Con's faces There is such a degree of stupidity here it must have some design to it. This is an attempt to gain some unity within the UK public IMO. Putin is already guilty for many. I say keep an open mind to all this stuff As long as none of these poisons have found their way into the Avon and the famous Roach are OK i couldn't give any real concern
There is no proof either way and if anyone thinks the government were right to use the media to broadcast this out then they are dumber than dumb. Boris then goes on and tell's the nation that Russia is lying Anyone think that maybe a simple statement from the government saying that it is being dealt with would be enough ... I do ...yet they make a circus out of it and people lap it up. FFS open your minds
I agree they jumped to Russia very quickly but that tells me that they have proof. They are not that stupid. I also find it hard for being told to open our minds? Maybe you should open your eyes and you will see it more clearly.
Russian spy poisoning: chemist says non-state actor couldn't carry out attack Vil Mirzayanov, who worked with the chemical novichok under Soviets for 30 years, says even he would not know how to weaponize it Tom McCarthy in Princeton, New Jersey please log in to view this image Vil Mirzayanov holds a copy of his book State Secrets at his home on 13 March 2018, in Princeton, New Jersey. Photograph: Dominick Reuter/AFP/Getty Images The Russian chemist who revealed the existence of the novichok family of chemical agents to the world has dismissed the notion that a non-state actor could be behind the poisoning of former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury, England, earlier this month. please log in to view this image 1.30pm Police have confirmed that Skripal and his daughter were in Salisbury city centre by 1.30pm. It is not known if they walked from his home or whether they drove or were driven in. Between 1.30pm and around 4pm Skripal and his daughter strolled around Salisbury and visited the Zizzi restaurant on Castle Street and the nearby Mill pub. They are believed to have been in Zizzi for about 40 minutes from 2.30pm. 3.47pm A CCTV camera at Snap Fitness in Market Walk captured two people initially thought to be Skripal and his daughter. The woman appeared to be carrying a red handbag. Later it became clear the pair were probably not the Russian and his daughter. Police have been keen to speak to the couple. 4.03pm The same camera caught personal trainer Freya Church. She turned left out of the gym and in front of her saw Skripal and the woman on a bench at the Maltings shopping centre. She said the woman had passed out and the man was behaving strangely. Church walked on. 4.08pm Footage that emerged on Friday from a local business showed that people were still strolling casually through Market Walk. Approx 4.15pm A member of the public dialled 999. The Friday footage shows an emergency vehicle racing through the pedestrianised arcade shortly after 4.15pm. A paramedic also ran through. Police and paramedics worked on the couple at the scene for almost an hour in ordinary uniforms. 5.11pm The woman was airlifted to hospital; Skripal was taken by road. 5.13pm Images taken by a passerby show that officers were still clearly unaware of the severity of the situation. They did not have specialist protective clothing and members of the public also strolled nearby. 5.48pm Police told Salisbury Journal they were investigating a possible drug-related incident. At about this time officers identified Skripal and his daughter and by Sunday evening they were at his home – in normal uniform or street clothes. At some point DS Nick Bailey, now seriously ill in hospital, visited the Skripal house, but it is not known where he was contaminated. Approx 8.20pm Officers donned protective suits to examine the bench and surrounding areas. By 9pm Officers were hosing themselves down. It was not until the next day that a major incident was declared. Photograph: Ben Stansall/AFP . Vil Mirzayanov, 83, said the chemical was too dangerous for anyone but a “high-level senior scientist” to handle and that even he – who worked for 30 years inside the secret military installation where novichok was developed and gained extensive personal experience in handling the agent – would not know how to weaponize it. He said he did not see how a criminal organization or other non-state group could pull off such an attack. “It’s very, very tough stuff,” Mirzayanov told the Guardian at his home in New Jersey, where he has lived in exile since 1996. “I don’t believe it. “You need a very high-qualified professional scientist,” he continued. “Because it is dangerous stuff. Extremely dangerous. You can kill yourself. First of all you have to have a very good shield, a very particular container. And after that to weaponize it – weaponize it is impossible without high technical equipment. It’s impossible to imagine.” The British government has announced sanctions against Moscow over the poisoning of Skripal, and the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, said on Friday it was “overwhelmingly likely” that the Russian president, Vladimir Putin, personally took the decision to use the nerve agent against the ex-spy. But the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, said on Wednesday that the chemical agent identified in the Salisbury attack could have been used by someone else other than the Russian state, and a Corbyn spokesperson suggested a “mafia-like group” or “oligarchic interests in London” might have been responsible. Mirzayanov said those theories did not make sense owing to the facilities and multiple layers of expertise that would be required to prepare such an attack. Chemists synthesizing the agent would have to be working somewhere with an antidote close at hand, he said, and they would have to be working with someone who knew how to weaponize it, which, he emphasized, he himself did not. “We had no idea how to weaponize it,” he said. “We don’t know because it’s not our business.” Weaponization would also need to take place at a different facility from the one where the agent was made, he said. Mirzayanov said the perpetrator of the attack must have been the Russian state. “No one country has these capabilities like Russia, because Russia invented, tested and weaponized novichok,” he said. The theory that the agent was stolen for use in a crime was weak for similar reasons, Mirzayanov said. “If you steal it, and after that, what to do with that?” he said. “You cannot weaponize, no exceptions, you cannot weaponize that.” Mirzayanov further said that there was probably no current stockpile of novichok to steal, because it has a limited shelf life and the preferred form would be a binary version in which two relatively benign, non-banned substances were mixed to produce novichok. “The final product, in storage, after one year is already losing 2%, 3%. The next year more, and the next year more. In 10-15 years, it’s no longer effective.” Mirzayanov worked inside the secret military installation where novichok was developed; his job was testing the surrounding air and soil for traces of novichok. When he realized that Moscow’s military was lying about the possible applications of novichok and that the program risked undermining global chemical weapons bans, he said, he decided to expose it, publishing his first account in the Russian press in 1991. He was arrested in 1994 and charged with divulging state secrets. Intervention by the US government, the Soros foundation and activists including his wife Gale, an American, secured his asylum in the United States. Mirzayanov thinks the Salisbury attack was performed with a binary version of the agent brought through customs and automatically mixed at the time of the attack. Quick guide How hard is it to make a nerve agent? Show Hide Nerve agents are not hard to make in principle, but in practice it takes specialised facilities and training to mix the substances safely. The raw materials themselves are inexpensive and generally not hard to obtain, but the lethality of the agents means they tend to be manufactured in dedicated labs. The main five nerve agents are tabun, which is the easiest to make, sarin, soman, GF and VX. The latter was used to kill Kim Jong-nam, the half-brother of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, at Kuala Lumpur airport last year. VX is particularly stable and can remain on clothing, furniture and the ground for a long time without proper decontamination. All pure nerve agents are colourless organophosphorus liquids which, after they were discovered to be highly poisonous in the 1930s, became the dominant chemical weapons of the second world war. Once made, the substances are easy to disperse, highly toxic, and have rapid effects. Most are absorbed swiftly through the skin or inhaled, but they can also be added to food and drink. The agents take their toll on the body by disrupting electrical signals throughout the nervous system and the effects are fast and dramatic. Victims find it increasingly hard to breathe. Their lungs produce more mucus which can make them cough and foam at the mouth. They sweat, their pupils constrict, and their eyes run. The effects on the digestive system trigger vomiting. Meanwhile the muscles convulse. Many of those affected will wet themselves and lose control of their bowels. At high doses, failure of the nerves and muscles of the respiratory system can kill before other symptoms have time to develop. There are antidotes for nerve agents, such as oxime and atropine, which are particularly effective against VX and sarin, but they should be given soon after exposure to be effective. Was this helpful? Thank you for your feedback. “I believe they brought binary version,” Mirzayanov said. “It’s two ampules, small containers, like a big bullet, put them together in a spray or something, and after that, some mechanism which is mixing them, a couple seconds and after that you’re shooting.” Mirzayanov said the danger for people in the area of the attack before or afterward would depend on the dosage used. “It’s extremely poisonous, about 10 times more potent than VX gas,” he said. “It could touch any skin and in a couple minutes would take effect.” The first sign of exposure is a shrinkage of pupils and darkening of vision, he said. “After that vomiting, [difficulty] breathing and convulsions.” An antidote can delay or partially reverse the effects of the poison but would not necessarily save the life of the victim, he said. Mirzayanov said he did not feel fear for himself or his family in speaking about novichok and Russia. “It may be a little bit crazy, but when I decide something, I’m going exactly to do it, without any distraction, to some goal,” he said. “I’m a very determined person. Because of that, if I’ve decided, all of it is gone, any fear – I don’t feel any fear.”
Kiwi today a Russian spokesman said Russia never made the Nerve agent, this bloke didn't invent it and as he lives in the US it's fake and The event in Salisbury never happened? And people ask why we are quick to blame them.
i thought there were too many pesky foreigners there already please log in to view this image was this not important enough for the rest of the 650 mps to bother with
