Still only the opening move on ticket prices. The hbic suggested scenario is possible, as is mine on the number of seats in each "price point" section. But again as I said I am not optimistic on either happening.
But it isn't the opening move is it ? These are now official prices which go "live" on Monday of next week. The only possible (but unlikely) backdown I can see the club making is to reinstate making the first 2 domestic Cup games free as was usual up to last season.
I'm not sure where I stand on this to be honest. I was on the season ticket waiting list for about ten years making it to the dizzy heights of about 10,000th. I would probably have had a season ticket years ago if the prices had been raised earlier. I'm very well off so can afford Premium Seats at Wembley and in the new stadium. I don't see why the club shouldn't charge what they can get while selling out the stadium. Every penny they raise will go towards buying and keeping better players and more success for the fans to enjoy. Football tickets are still very cheap compared to say those for concerts. But it's very hard on the poorer fans. What is the right balance?
hbic suggested that there could be a "backdown" in which prices are reduced to something more sensible (the PR victory being that the club "listened" to the supporters and changed accordingly) . However, if as you say the "live" date is the coming Monday, then that leaves very little time for such a backdown.
Whatever satisfies both the financial : 1. commitments the club has (paying down stadium debt etc) 2. means of the great majority of supporters who were at old WHL We generally know #2. But without knowing what #1 is or is expected to be, how can anyone comment on whether the prices are sound (from the viewpoint of #1) or pure greed ??
Concerts are not (generally) 30 x per year expenses...... The real loss to the club will be if you exclude those fans who will recreate the atmosphere of WHL and we end up with a sterile (dare I say it) library. And as one of the older brigade, I accept that will generally be the under 30's - the same generation that are being financially excluded from home ownership. Be grateful to be able to afford the Avocado and Pulled Pork lattes - I know I am. But my idea of heaven is to attend a rocking WHL, Shelfside & Park Lane out shouting themselves, driving the boys on. So far I have trusted in DL and the club plan. This is the first blip - and potentially a fatal blow. Just hope that there is a cunning PR plan that we're not privvy to.......
If our average season ticket costs more than £1,000, then this is no longer true. That works out at more than £50 per game and individual matches are even more expensive. Compare it with any other country and it's a ridiculous mark up.
I've been on Spurs Community and their poll of ST holders indicate that 6% would be considering the option of not renewing. There's a fair degree of dissatisfaction but the club will bank on that dying down over the days and weeks ahead...and it probably will. There's not much civil disobedience in us as a nation and Spurs ST holders are mostly men of a certain age whose best fighting days are behind them. It was always going to come to this, especially given the 'high end' nature of the whole development and how much money has been lavished on achieving that. The club, under Enic, are pathologically opposed to debt, as indicated by our transfer dealings. There was always going to be a move to reduce the debt as soon as possible, at the expense of the fans because we've paid for everything that's happened in the last 17 years. The trade off has been that things have gradually and almost constantly improved. That's the key. The interesting thing in the Spurs Community poll and on SSC is that a goodly number of ST holders are talking about renewing for next season and reviewing their long-term response after that. If you're going to charge premium prices, you'd best be delivering a premium product. I'm paying a small fortune to see 'Young Frankenstein' tomorrow with Mrs B and our girls. I'm paying it because it'll deliver great entertainment and I'll be happy with what I've spent, if considerably poorer. If we have a great season in 2018/19, win something, re-sign Toby and extend contracts for Harry, Christian Eriksen, Dele, Sonny, etc. then all will be well. If we don't do much of that, then, soon it'll be "Levy Out" and prices and attendances will suffer pretty soon after. It's a whole new ball of wax . The Spammers show it's not all about price and how badly it can go. They grudgingly put up with all the new ground **** until it became obvious that the football end of things wasn't going to improve. By contrast, the Gooners have fared pretty well up to now. If they struggle on the pitch for the next few years, it will be a pointer to where supporters will draw the line long-term on paying such high prices. I'm pretty sure that we're basing our pricing model on the NFL pricing model and that we'll have American owners or co-owners within a decade and be in a European Super League that's beyond my pocket more than a couple of times a season. The older I get, the more I value my younger years.
The point I missed in my original post was that the only reason I'm not a previous season ticket holder at White Hart Lane is because the club chose to sell the tickets to others at such a low price that none were available to me. I don't understand why people think that gives them any sort of entitlement. I do think that the atmosphere will be better if the crowd is younger but surely there can't be many current season ticket holders under 40 as it took about 20 years to get through the waiting list.
Entitlement is a misrepresentation. For the so-called "people's game" , you want things to be as equitable as possible for all parties (the "virtuous circle" ) . I don't want a price "gentrification" that while easily paying the bills, turns new WHL into the N17 branch of the PL Library. On what little info I currently have, I do not believe the club is being equitable, nor that many supporters are being ingrates or deluded.
I don't feel entitled to to a season ticket or to tickets for a certain match. I do not think that because I have been going since 1981 as a 14 year old that I deserve tickets more than some who started going this season. I have never got a cup final ticket and can not remember the last away ticket I got but would never moan. personally, in this day and age I feel lucky to afford the £600 I have spent on tickets for us all this season considering how badly off others are. My issue is one of being priced out altogether. I will always have other things to do in life but I would be gutted to no longer take my girls to matches. My eldest has been going since 2004 and my youngest since 2006. It has been a fun part of our lives and has provided great memories. I do not pretend to know what the answer is but do not think football can be compared to other entertainments cos of the community and loyalty aspects of football.
How very pretentious. If they had been raised others would never have had a season ticket, ever. The fact that you have greater capital than most does not make you a more deserving or loyal fan. I think this is true only in your imagination. And even if it is true, the income generated from ticket sales is a minimal percentage of total profit compared to the real source of most clubs' money: TV rights, advertising and global merchandise. Good grief.
OK - I can see that came over badly. I actually want fans who are poorer than me to be able to afford to go to matches. I think the solution is for there to be more very high priced tickets which the likes of me can buy and which effectively subsidise the lower priced ones. In old WHL the club didn't have any spare seats to allow that. Now they do have a lot of seats they need to sell more at a higher price to subsidise the cheap ones. But the existence of a waiting list deprives the club of income and gives it to ticket touts instead. I do genuinely believe that all the club's income will flow through to success on the field - that's the only way to make the club more valuable.
Totally agree with this. So would Adam Smith. Although sadly, Capitalism and trickle-down economics never quite fulfil their true promise or potential.
Much like yourself, I've cut back from going to every game in the late 70's and 80's to a few games a season with my daughter, normally on my brother's season tickets, when he can't use them, plus cup games. I've been to a lot more this season because it's been cheaper and knowing that it would be the last season for a while that I could easily afford to go to games like United, Liverpool, etc. I'm would not say I'm rich. I shop mostly on ebay and have never bought a new car or motorcycle in my life. I've always spread my money about in terms of going to stuff. I go to the theatre with Mrs B about 8 times a year and the face value on tickets for that cost more than going to most Spurs games, even after the price rise for the new stadium. There's also gigs, where I'm lucky to want to see bands costing £35 or less but my daughters want to see bands at venues like the O2. I'm taking my youngest to see Fall Out Boy in a few weeks and to get tickets in the same post code as the band has cost over £180 all-in for the two of us, including booking costs. Spurs new prices are in those brackets and the facilities offered are on a par with these new venues and good theatre seats. I think it's over priced but it is justifiable and there are people who, over a year, spend every bit as much as football fans going to theatre and gigs and restaurants. Spurs have decided to pitch their/our future in that price range. It's probably a glimpse of the future. As usual, I'm not keen but we shall see.
I agree completely about the weaknesses of capitalism. But unfortunately it's that system which is in operation. It's the balance between not pricing out the poorer fans and maximising the club's income that can't be solved.
