Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Deleted.......]

I share your discomfort, Stan. I am totally behind the parents’ right to choose what is best for their children, but us yoomans are supposed to be social animals too, so parents also have a duty, I feel, to ensure their offspring are properly equipped to interact with wider society. I’m no expert, but I suspect subjecting your kids to images of jihadist beheadings doesn’t necessarily achieve this in the way most of us would wish.

My sister's friends took their kids out of school because they couldn't find one that really chimed with their Catholic beliefs - this included three RC schools. I'd beat the parents severely with a big stick and tell them to grow up. The damage they're potentially doing to their kids through what is really an irrelevant set of moral principles (and I say that as a weekly church goer) is criminal.

 

[Deleted.......]

A disgusting, barbaric process.
If we ban it’s use then another massive plus for leaving the EU

Is it practiced in the UK?

 

[sb_73]

I won't eat it, Stan, or veal. I like to know the animals I eat have had a good life at least.

Sure, others can avoid it, but I wonder how many really think about it. No criticism but people will say - I shouldn't eat it really, but it tastes nice...

I'm hopeful that real progress can be made in the conditions animals are kept over the next decade. Once we're out of the EU, the UK can lead the way.

It’s an interesting area for discussion, animal rights can lead to many other areas where personal morals and ethics engage with public morality. My daughter is studying philosophy at A level and hopes to continue at university. She tells me that a lot of modern philosophy launches from animal rights, medical ethics etc, they seem to have given up on the big questions like ‘what the **** is all this about’.

I have no argument in keeping animals well and killing them humanely - selfishly because it would help a tiny part of my conscience and because I suspect they taste better. But mainly because I have a vain hope that if we can treat animals well we might treat each other better too. But I get nervy when people call for bans based on their personal morality. The practice of producing foie gras should die out because we collectively feel it is unnecessary and demand collapses, not because Michael Gove decides we have to be saved from our base desires for tasty morsels.

On well kept things tasting better, I have always been struck by how much tastier chicken is in poor countries compared to here. Discovered why (thanks to Jamie Oliver, sorry). In poor countries chickens lay eggs and run around leading a comparatively long life before they go to the pot. They are have more muscles and less fat, need cooking a bit longer but taste great.

 

[Staines R's]

Is it practiced in the UK?

I would think not but I honestly don’t know.

 

[ELLERS]

Blair was a warmonger who was backed to the hilt by the Tories. They did not challenge the case or ask for evidence. Nor did Fleet Street.

The Tories went on the information that was given to them and the country by Blair. Sorry Yorkshire he lied and it has been proven he lied. You can't blame the Tories for supporting what they thought was the truth.
I know people like/dislike the Tories but in the case of the Gulf war they were conned like many others.

 

[sb_73]

I would think not but I honestly don’t know.

Bloody public servants, too idle to look anything up:

Foie-gras production is banned in several countries, including most of the Austrian provinces, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Turkey and the UK.[49]

The force feeding of animals for non-medical purposes, essential to current foie gras production practices, is explicitly prohibited by specific laws in Austria,[57] the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany,[58] Italy,[59] Luxembourg, Norway,[60] Poland,[61] or following interpretation of general animal protection laws in Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.[62] However, foie gras can still be imported into and purchased in these countries. Most of these countries do not currently produce foie gras, nor have they in the past. Thus, these bans have stopped actual foie gras production in very few countries.[63]

Since 1997, the number of European countries producing foie gras has halved. Only five countries still produce foie gras: Belgium, Romania, Spain, France and Hungary.

 

[Deleted.......]

Bloody public servants, too idle to look anything up:

Foie-gras production is banned in several countries, including most of the Austrian provinces, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Turkey and the UK.[49]

The force feeding of animals for non-medical purposes, essential to current foie gras production practices, is explicitly prohibited by specific laws in Austria,[57] the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany,[58] Italy,[59] Luxembourg, Norway,[60] Poland,[61] or following interpretation of general animal protection laws in Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.[62] However, foie gras can still be imported into and purchased in these countries. Most of these countries do not currently produce foie gras, nor have they in the past. Thus, these bans have stopped actual foie gras production in very few countries.[63]

Since 1997, the number of European countries producing foie gras has halved. Only five countries still produce foie gras: Belgium, Romania, Spain, France and Hungary.

I was almost convinced it was not practiced here but if any forum has someone who is going to prove me wrong it's this one!
The EU is interesting on animal welfare. It does tend to push for as high standards as possible (and we're streets ahead of USA on things like chicken farming) but is fiercely protective of practices like foie gras as it is European tradition.

 

[Staines R's]

Bloody public servants, too idle to look anything up:

Foie-gras production is banned in several countries, including most of the Austrian provinces, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Turkey and the UK.[49]

The force feeding of animals for non-medical purposes, essential to current foie gras production practices, is explicitly prohibited by specific laws in Austria,[57] the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany,[58] Italy,[59] Luxembourg, Norway,[60] Poland,[61] or following interpretation of general animal protection laws in Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.[62] However, foie gras can still be imported into and purchased in these countries. Most of these countries do not currently produce foie gras, nor have they in the past. Thus, these bans have stopped actual foie gras production in very few countries.[63]

Since 1997, the number of European countries producing foie gras has halved. Only five countries still produce foie gras: Belgium, Romania, Spain, France and Hungary.

In my defence.....I was too lazy to look things up even before I started work for the NHS.....and due to the fact I’m in the middle of yet another umpteen page essay (Blood loss and Wounds this time), I’m now lazier still.

 

[QPR Oslo]

Good point. However Blair presided over a government whose economic policy was as free market as you could get. And you ignore at your peril that it was the likes of Benn and Corbyn who were the lone voices of opposition to war. Blair was a warmonger who was backed to the hilt by the Tories. They did not challenge the case or ask for evidence. Nor did Fleet Street. Corbyn and Benn did. So even on that score, Corbyn can position himself very favourably should the media turn the spotlight on the role he played.

On the boom and bust point, most people have seen through that fallacy that the it was the fault of Gordon Brown's policies. The global economic crisis was caused by bankers and profiteers steeped in the traditions of an unregulated financial sector doing what comes naturally to anyone whose sole motive in life is to make as much as he or she can as quickly as possible for as long as he or she can get away with it. As I said it was a free market economic policy with zero regulation, a regime first introduced by Lawson, the man responsible for the crash in the late 80s when he abolished multiple mortgage tax relief. Sound.

Corbyn hasn't ****ed up the economy because he hasn't been given the opportunity to do so. I dare say you're spot on that he will if given that chance. However given the stark choice between someone who peddles the myth that if you soak the rich and refocus economic benefits on the poor everything will be fine and a party who can only say that there is no magic money tree and you can't trust that lot and we will continue with austerity, I'd be very wary of predicting the outcome As we know the great British public don't always vote the way you or I might expect them to.

Pretty much spot on that about Iraq, Blair and Brown.

 

[Steelmonkey]

Bloody public servants, too idle to look anything up:

Foie-gras production is banned in several countries, including most of the Austrian provinces, the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, Luxembourg, Norway, Poland, Turkey and the UK.[49]

The force feeding of animals for non-medical purposes, essential to current foie gras production practices, is explicitly prohibited by specific laws in Austria,[57] the Czech Republic, Denmark, Finland, Germany,[58] Italy,[59] Luxembourg, Norway,[60] Poland,[61] or following interpretation of general animal protection laws in Ireland, Sweden, Switzerland, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom.[62] However, foie gras can still be imported into and purchased in these countries. Most of these countries do not currently produce foie gras, nor have they in the past. Thus, these bans have stopped actual foie gras production in very few countries.[63]

Since 1997, the number of European countries producing foie gras has halved. Only five countries still produce foie gras: Belgium, Romania, Spain, France and Hungary.

So it's production is already banned in the UK? Therefore leaving the EU will have no effect on practices in this country, and we won't face any punitive action from the EU for banning an industry that is already banned - hooray!

 

[kiwiqpr]

In my defence.....I was too lazy to look things up even before I started work for the NHS.....and due to the fact I’m in the middle of yet another umpteen page essay (Blood loss and Wounds this time), I’m now lazier still.

Googlestan has saved me hours of searching and the information is always good

 

[sb_73]

So it's production is already banned in the UK? Therefore leaving the EU will have no effect on practices in this country, and we won't face any punitive action from the EU for banning an industry that is already banned - hooray!

The ban would be on importing the stuff, which would be against EU rules as it’s a trade barrier. They may ban export of Stilton as a reprisal.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

It’s an interesting area for discussion, animal rights can lead to many other areas where personal morals and ethics engage with public morality. My daughter is studying philosophy at A level and hopes to continue at university. She tells me that a lot of modern philosophy launches from animal rights, medical ethics etc, they seem to have given up on the big questions like ‘what the **** is all this about’.

I have no argument in keeping animals well and killing them humanely - selfishly because it would help a tiny part of my conscience and because I suspect they taste better. But mainly because I have a vain hope that if we can treat animals well we might treat each other better too. But I get nervy when people call for bans based on their personal morality. The practice of producing foie gras should die out because we collectively feel it is unnecessary and demand collapses, not because Michael Gove decides we have to be saved from our base desires for tasty morsels.

On well kept things tasting better, I have always been struck by how much tastier chicken is in poor countries compared to here. Discovered why (thanks to Jamie Oliver, sorry). In poor countries chickens lay eggs and run around leading a comparatively long life before they go to the pot. They are have more muscles and less fat, need cooking a bit longer but taste great.

Good point about the link between animal care and human to human interaction.

Bans can be justified in extreme situations , such as cruelty. We wouldn't tolerate female circumcision in the hope it would die out.

What you say about chicken taste is the argument for free range. Much better product than the jellylike flesh of a battery hen.

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

No, this practice is not farming, at least not decent farming. It's animal torture. Decent farming should involve animal welfare.

I too have killed animals and eaten them. I'm not a vegetarian, but I believe in giving farm animals quality of life and a humane death. I'd also ban slaughter without stunning in abatoirs

But you can’t ban anything nor can I
Seen this up close in France plus all sort of things including descaling live fish

Worked in abattoirs in the U.K. as a young man. My family kept pigs and had a very large dairy herd.

Seen chicken farms recently in the UK that are far worse than they were 30 years ago

I live with a veggie but even now knows that it’s food production having visited what is left of our farm. Each to their own I say

Farmers know animals better than anyone imo They certainly know nature than any of those useless organisations

Too many people watch Countyfile on the BBC imo. They wouldn’t last 5 minutes in my life with me

Worse things in life that pate production

The great thing is people can become outraged but they can’t do anything about it and people who eat at a high end will continue to eat fois gras in restaurants in the U.K.

If you want to have a pop then target Veal or fish farming both of which I know a great deal about.

I believe no one in the U.K. shop has any idea about what goes on. As long as they can get it in pretty packets for next to nothing all they can do is moan

We had to kill feral cats every week from our barns because if we didn’t they got out of control as it was they were eating themselves. Respect to what anyone chooses to eat but you have to live in it to fully understand the life imo . I say respect but **** the vegans as recently had fisty cuffs with someone you was slagging off what I was eating

Fois Gras is a traditional product from France nothing to do with us. Don’t buy it and don’t eat it that’s fine but to try and ban it

Good luck with that

 

[Lawrence Jacoby]

Good point about the link between animal care and human to human interaction.

Bans can be justified in extreme situations , such as cruelty. We wouldn't tolerate female circumcision in the hope it would die out.

What you say about chicken taste is the argument for free range. Much better product than the jellylike flesh of a battery hen.

I live in a place where food is king
I also live in a place where food is not even in the same league ... not even close but I do favour English Cheese

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

But you can’t ban anything nor can I
Seen this up close in France plus all sort of things including descaling live fish

Worked in abattoirs in the U.K. as a young man. My family kept pigs and had a very large dairy herd.

Seen chicken farms recently in the UK that are far worse than they were 30 years ago

I live with a veggie but even now knows that it’s food production having visited what is left of our farm. Each to their own I say

Farmers know animals better than anyone imo They certainly know nature than any of those useless organisations

Too many people watch Countyfile on the BBC imo. They wouldn’t last 5 minutes in my life with me

Worse things in life that pate production

The great thing is people can become outraged but they can’t do anything about it and people who eat at a high end will continue to eat fois gras in restaurants in the U.K.

If you want to have a pop then target Veal or fish farming both of which I know a great deal about.

I believe no one in the U.K. shop has any idea about what goes on. As long as they can get it in pretty packets for next to nothing all they can do is moan

We had to kill feral cats every week from our barns because if we didn’t they got out of control as it was they were eating themselves. Respect to what anyone chooses to eat but you have to live in it to fully understand the life imo . I say respect but **** the vegans as recently had fisty cuffs with someone you was slagging off what I was eating

Fois Gras is a traditional product from France nothing to do with us. Don’t buy it and don’t eat it that’s fine but to try and ban it

Good luck with that

I wasn’t that bothered about foie gras until I went to Bordeaux. How are people there not all morbidly obese when you can have some of the best food and wine in the world for 15 euros a head?

 

[ELLERS]

I think the food in France is overrated. I was told that the best beef in France was locally to where my house is. I was also told a certain restaurant (locally) was the best around for beef. After eating there twice I think a Scottish steak is far better. Deserts in France are good but much of the food is over-hyped. They live on old reputations.
saying all this they still have the best wine.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

I think the food in France is overrated. I was told that the best beef in France was locally to where my house is. I was also told a certain restaurant (locally) was the best around for beef. After eating there twice I think a Scottish steak is far better. Deserts in France are good but much of the food is over-hyped. They live on old reputations.
saying all this they still have the best wine.

You went to the wrong places then.

 

[durbar2003]

But you can’t ban anything nor can I
Seen this up close in France plus all sort of things including descaling live fish

Worked in abattoirs in the U.K. as a young man. My family kept pigs and had a very large dairy herd.

Seen chicken farms recently in the UK that are far worse than they were 30 years ago

I live with a veggie but even now knows that it’s food production having visited what is left of our farm. Each to their own I say

Farmers know animals better than anyone imo They certainly know nature than any of those useless organisations


Good luck with that

I have a feeling that the veggie you live with is a cucumber.

 

[GoldhawkRoad]

I live in a place where food is king
I also live in a place where food is not even in the same league ... not even close but I do favour English Cheese

Can't knock French food (except Gestapo goose pate). The bread and cheeses and pastries are superb. Ellers is right about the quality of meat though, Scotch beef and Welsh lamb being superior. It's said that the French developed their first class sauces because their meat needed something more. As to wines, we have a great deal more choice here with world wines, than the French consumer has because the French are protectionist. But the best wines in the world are still French.