I agree, things should have been sorted. It needed someone tough to walk in on day one and say goodbye, instead of the weak stance shown (this has not helped with many trying to derail from within). All of this weakness has given the EU a stronger hand. Too much internal fighting within the government, half want soft, half want hard Brexit. I believe we are causing ourselves more long-term problems. What we need is Mogg to sort it out, although he was described last night as an "emissary from the 18th century"
The problem stems for May's blunders re the election. She gambled a strong hand for a stronger hand, and got something weaker than both. But the way forward seems clear now, which to be fair May has been promulgating from the start. We are leaving the single market and any form of restrictive customs union. We'd like trade with the EU to be as frictionless as possible, including financial services. Then the EU has to decide. Do they demand tariffs to punish the UK on the "no cherry picking" principle, which will at the same time damage in the financial interests of their members, or do they go for a pragmatic solution. Italy's an interesting case. They have big problems with immigration, much of it illegal, with which the EU has shown no interest in helping. Trade with the UK is important so if Brussels make it more difficult for Italy, that won't go down well. There are elections over there next month, and Berlusconi's anti-immigration coalition is threatening. If it takes power, it won't be favourable to the EU.
Funny you should mention this because on the news last night they had two people discussing the EU and it was interesting picking up on one saying "they are not as united as they want us to believe". He went on saying that many countries are worried about their own interests. The EU as we know is not like the US, one country. It has many different countries wanting different things. Imagine the EU telling Spain that they need to add some sort of tariffs to holidaymakers from the UK? That will only end one way with cheaper trips to other places like US/Oz (by the way have we noticed the amount of reduced fares to both and the recent advertising)? We would stop going to Majorca/Ibiza and the rest of the resorts that keep Spain going. Saying that I am sure the Germans would still go...you get my point. In Italy the eurosceptic party will win the election and will cause massive problems with the EU. https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...parties-opinion-polls-european-union-brussels
What you are describing is a situation where both sides of the negotiation are essentially weak. I’d guess that the outcome will be driven by lack of ability to achieve consensus at all levels - within the U.K. government, between the EU countries and between the U.K. and the EU. Good for no one, perhaps a default chaotic hard Brexit ( though I’m guessing our government will push this back at least 2 years by agreeing to a transition where we are in the EU in every way except voting rights). If the U.K. gets its act together it will be a pretty powerful incentive for the EU to. But so far we have seen an amazingly united EU (to my surprise) and no sign that this has galvanised unity and sense of purpose and direction on the U.K. government side, if anything the reverse. As far as I can remember most other countries already have a ‘tourist tax’ stealthily added to your hotel bill when you check out. In the US it is charmingly called the ‘Innkeepers Tax’ in some places. They certainly have them in Spain, amount varies by location. I think it’s quite a good idea, especially if the money is kept locally, where the tourists have an impact.
Totally agree and tbh it is only because of our weakness/uncertainty that has prolonged this. They will start falling to bits when reality kicks in. By the way, I don't want the house of cards to fall, it will do that itself. What we need is a clear picture, a united government/country to move forward but sadly I cannot see this happening. What I will not want is a sell-out where we are in the EU but not, whereby we agree to all their rules but don't have a say. Any Prime Minister that does that needs to be kicked out of office. Thank god for Mogg.
I agree with you, Stan, that there a significant weaknesses for both sides. The UK has to get the deal through a Parliament which is mostly Remain (although most MP's are anxious to honour the referendum result). Behind the scenes, the EU have members pulling in all directions. For example, the East European countries are threatening a revolt to maintain their independence, national identity and ability to refuse to take migrants. Sure, there has been a common sense of purpose over Brexit because what Brussels has put to them has been non-contentious. 1. The UK should not be able to leave and keep all the benefits 2. The UK must pay all its obligations and also for any transition period. 3. EU citizens in the UK should not be prejudiced, and 4. In view of the History of Troubles, Ireland must be satisfied with the deal on borders. These are no-brainers for EU members. Why should any of them demur? But it's different if Brussels is threatening tariffs that will impact the EU as a whole more than the UK (since they sell more to us than we do to them). Germany may say - it will affect our industry, but we'll take the hit to preserve important EU principles. But countries like Italy and Spain need the frictionless trade with the UK to help them bolster frail economies. The Benelux and Scandinavian countries will take big hits too. At a time when there are growing anti-EU factions growing in those countries. This is the EU's Achillies heel, and I hope May and her cabinet are ready to exploit it.
The naked truth on Jacob Rees‑Mogg heckler Joshua Connor The Corbynite who caused chaos at the Tory MP’s talk is a failed would-be student leader with an exhibitionist streak Robin Henry and Sorcha Bradley please log in to view this image Joshua Connor in his campaign poster and confronting Jacob Rees-Mogg The hooded protester at the centre of a scuffle involving Jacob Rees-Mogg is a middle-class Corbynite who works in recruitment. Joshua Connor, 24, was part of a group of far-left activists who heckled the Conservative MP as he started to give a talk at the University of the West of England in Bristol on Friday evening. Rees-Mogg had been invited to speak to an audience of about 300 people by the university’s politics and international relations society but the event quickly descended into chaos and violence. Wearing a hood, baseball cap and sunglasses, Connor can be seen yelling in the MP’s face “No platform for sexists!” before becoming involved in a fight with another audience member. The Tory politician, who was dressed, as always, in a smart suit and tie, tried to separate the pair as more people, including Connor’s girlfriend, were drawn into the scuffle. Despite partially concealing his face, Connor was identified by other students on social media yesterday. He was already quite well known on the Bristol campus having unsuccessfully run for student union president three years earlier, using a campaign poster in which he posed naked with the words “Nothing to hide” emblazoned across his chest. He claimed the vote was rigged after coming third. Connor now works as a recruiter for a customer services outsourcing firm, but still has a passion for student politics, according to his social media profiles. His Facebook likes include the “We support Jeremy Corbyn” group, Momentum and local Labour Party pages. Rees-Mogg, 48, shrugged off the incident yesterday as “a reasonable protest that went a bit too far”. “If you go back to the 1950s and 1960s, you had election hustings that were much more troublesome . . . You had eggs being thrown and all sorts of things,” he told Sky News. “They were perfectly entitled to say they disagreed with me. It was a little odd to be wearing balaclavas.” Connor could not be reached for comment.
It could all be to do with Brexit Add it to the bill and let’s make sure they pay for it! Lost €6 yesterday
Dangerous last-ditch attempt by the EU to derail Brexit will only make our resolve stronger. They need to look at our history. This 'punishment plan' would never happen anyway. It's funny how they said they didn't want to punish us than say the opposite? The proof that we need to get out of this nonthinking selective organization.
It’s a first draft document, designed, I think, to galvanise some kind of decision and proposal making from May. Look at the timing - leaked on the day that the cabinet gathers yet again to try and sort out what they want. Pretty aggressive stuff though, and pretty obviously unacceptable. I don’t understand why people are fixated about tariffs - the opposite sides of the Tory party Ken Clarke and Bernard Jenkin - were going on about them on the radio this morning. For most things it’s only 3%, easily dwarfed by swings in currency value. It’s the regulations and customs arrangements which will be time consuming and expensive.
Agree 'tariffs' what are they? Also agree, once again another document is leaked at a specific time. If that doesn't tell us something what will?
It tells me that the EU has a negotiation strategy and we don’t, and that they have changed their position from two willing partners trying to reach an agreement to ‘us and them’ style. Though this one might backfire on them.
Sb sometimes you need to read into things and stop blaming us for everything. I never hear you say the EU is wrong here when it clearly is. I have in the past been critical about some Brexit things but it never seems to be the other way around.
Well it will make the 52% resolve stronger I agree. Getting out of what? At least it seems they have a plan ... where is ours?
Well, in the post from me you liked I said what has been leaked is pretty aggressive and unacceptable. The EU is negotiating into a vacuum, and that is our government’s fault. Doesn’t make the EU right, but I can understand the way they are going about this much more easily than I can understand what our government is doing. For the record, I think the EU has a stack of problems unrelated to Brexit which it will struggle to deal with, they will always have tensions around the individual country interests v the interests of the whole, the practical impact of the € (which has inherent contradictions unless countries share fiscal as well as monetary policy, which is hard to imagine) differing wealth between member states and differing social attitudes. One day one or more of these things might tip the balance and lead to more countries leaving or the whole thing breaking up. But until now I don’t think there is a single country (with the possible exception of Greece, though who knows where they would be without the EU) which would not say that its people are materially better off through membership. Exactly how much is impossible to disentangle from the Global economy, but what happens to us after we finally leave might help to judge. I intensely dislike some of the figureheads of the EU (especially Junckers and that Dutch bloke from the EU Parliament, though I like Tusk and Barnier is just a servant). So it’s a deeply flawed undertaking. But I just like the idea of international collaboration and integration under broadly liberal democratic rules, which is why I voted remain, despite all the issues. And with what I have seen from our government since the vote I have no belief that any of the so called benefits of Brexit will be delivered except reduced immigration (which may be to some a social benefit but won’t be an economic one). Enough? And anyway, me saying nasty things about the EU won’t make much difference to the outcome.
