Off Topic Political Debate

What a strange comment, you seem to be endorsing the behaviour of these thugs? I'm surprised you have not echoed most people's view that this was unacceptable behaviour. Please outline why Rees Mogg was partially responsible in your view.?

 

No I am endorsing a political dialectic...... Universities have been churning out mindless fodder for the job market for years now... it is time our young people wake up and Rees Mogg chose to go to this University and he knew exactly what he was doing.... some great headlines for the tabloids and linking it like you do to Labour is just typical of the blinkered approach to politics so many have.

We have the rule of law which is pretty good in the UK. So he was allowed to speak at a Univ and the audience was allowed to respond..

If you follow what happened:

Conservative MP Jacob Rees-Mogg was caught up in a scuffle after protesters disrupted a speech he was giving at a student event.

Videos online show the backbencher surrounded by a group of people, with shouting audible in the background.

BBC reporter James Craig, who was at the University of the West of England (UWE) event, said security cleared the protesters within five minutes.

Mr Rees-Mogg, who resumed his speech, said they were "entitled to protest".

However, he said it was "sad" they would not engage and discuss views to which they objected.

Mr Rees-Mogg had been speaking at an event organised by the university's Politics and International Relations Society.

Police said they had launched an investigation into the scenes at the Frenchay Campus in Bristol, but no arrests had yet been made.


The university said on Twitter it was "absolutely appalled by the conduct of a small number of attendees" at the event.

The statement continued: "It is our understanding at this stage that a small group of protesters broke into the lecture theatre where the event was due to take place via the back doors.

"We understand that these protesters were not UWE Bristol students and did not have tickets for the event.

"We support the democratic right to free speech and peaceful protest. However, we strongly condemn the actions of protesters who disrupted normal debate and behaved in this way.


Let's get real about this.... a few activists sought to disrupt an event... and it was sorted in 5 minutes.....

 

Quite revealing what you think of young graduates. This incident followed an attempt to ban him from speaking and was serious enough to make all of the national newspapers and tv channels. I wonder what your attitude would have been if they had been right wing demonstrators?

 

Yes I spent 20 years teaching them and another 10+ years in education before that.

I really feel for how they have been hoodwinked

Our establishment has dumbed down the minds of our young people for approx 40 years. We used to have the best education system in the world... We now have the University College of the middle of nowhere offering degrees in Nothing Much At All. The students may get 4 hours a week contact time The young kids get £60k in debt, which society encourages them to do, and then spend 30 years 'owing it back' plus saving up for a mortgage a car, the god of retail materialism and all these so-called 'essentials'.

I am not surprised at all that a section of young people feel disenfranchised and angry.... .really.

We have also seen right wing 'violence' for years too ... any party to the extreme left or right ( as we may choose to define them) bring a threat to the established order.

Of course it made the press.... they were all there... .a wonderful opportunity for all protagonists..... designed to keep society as divided as ever.

Getting all morally righteous about a few irate people when bombs from the UK are raining down on innocent people across the world is , yes ,for me, hypocrisy...

 

Any controversial speaker - be they left or right wing will attract people who disagree with them. This appears to have been a handful of cowards (hid their faces) who in fact offered no violence to JRM - and he in fact went to the back to speak to them - good for him. The shame is they used violence against fellow students but it was more a case of handbags than anything more. Did they do themselves any credit? No. Did JRM come out of it well? Yes.
They, like JRM, have a right to free speech but went further than they should - in student terms how outrageous was this on a score of 0-100 - 20 or 30?
Good for Bristol for inviting him and to the majority who engaged well.

 

Apart from your ending on a bit of a rant I agree with some of this.
I see the problem as going back a couple of decades to when the government decided we were behind other countries in the numbers of people going to university. Hence the turning of polytechnics into Unis etc. We give degrees in subjects that have no place as degree material. It is because we do not value young people and look to find their strengths and help them develop themselves. The idea was that a university was the be all and end all. It is not. Vocational qualifications are far better for the majority. University to an extent is the province of "intellectuals". If only we could look at more genuine apprenticeships and find ways to get young people to realise their potential we would do better.
Instead we dupe youngsters into thinking that a degree in media studies will get them one of the high paid jobs they crave - and the result is disappointment.

 

Those left wing thugs have inadvertently boosted JRM's chances of leading the Tories in future. As I see it he has only two weaknesses. One is his image as being from another era and a privileged background. The other is his strongly held views on abortion. Incidents such as last night only help to diminish the effect of the first, whilst his honesty, rare in an ambitious politician, somewhat negates the potential negative in the second. I can see why he is now favourite to eventually replace May as leader amongst the Tory rank and file.

 

Yes agreed...... my younger daughter in a moment of realisation ( phew) did not take up her place at Univ in business studies... and three years later is now financial administrator for an investment company and two of the team under her have masters degrees.....

On the wider issue education has been transformed:
Testing from early primary onwards
Standardised targets
Focus on quantitative outcomes
Little focus on the individual, unless having an assessment of a ' learning difficulty' or 'gifted'
Emphasis on maths, english and sciences ( which still fails many)
Reduction in arts, music, languages
Lip service to social education
Little latitude for differences in development, maturity, learning styles etc

I could go on.................. but I won't

 

I wish you would. You mention a list and some of these seem good and some bad - what are your thoughts on each - from your "expert" perspective.

 

I am sure that the kind of people who could or would support JRM as a Tory leader are not those who need influencing by that.
If JRM becomes Tory leader he will polarise opinion. I suspect a JRM led Tory party would be less electable. So perhaps left wingers have a secret plot to get him there.

 

Just as an aside I confess that I like JRM. I find his odd, anachronistic personality fascinating and love to hear him speak. However I find most of his ideas - not least on abortion - repulsive. If he became Tory leader I think he would do more for Labour than Corbyn did for the Tories.

 

If he can address the two weaknesses I highlighted his undoubted abilities could shine through. It was my wish the Tory Party's image would change from privilege to one of free enterprise and opportunity for all. Obviously he currently does not portray this view but maybe his background can be softened as successfully as Cameron and Osborne's were. The public are crying out for honest politicians who are prepared to express their views regardless of public opinion. If he managed to reach the last two in a Tory leadership battle he would need to convince the centrists and remainers amongst the party membership of his credentials.

 

As I said in my last post Yorkie, it is part and parcel of politics. Every time a politician gives an open speech which is not to the party faithfull, disturbance can occur. I can name, off the top of my hat, 20 or so politic

I don't think you should base your assessment on it being 'important enough to make the national newspapers' SH. Britain has a surplus of journalists who are freelance and need to find stories to fill newspapers - much of the stuff which arrives in the national press is not really newsworthy. Anybody who has followed politics, or actually canvassed themselves, knows that public speaking of a political nature can lead to disturbances - unless it is to a closed audience ie. the party faithfull etc. It happens all the time, and has always happened - there were riots in the past when politicians stood on soapboxes and addressed thousands of people. I myself have been abused and assaulted whilst canvassing for a political party - it happens.

 

He has gone to great lengths to explain they are his own personal views but he would not try to influence others. His bravery in answering this difficult subject with honesty was in great contrast to the opportunistic Farron who lied then corrected himself when he realised his political career was going nowhere.

 

Since the rise of Momentum there has been an increase in aggressive tactics against those not supporting their views. This will only increase.

 

I accept that - and applaud him for it. Contrasted strongly to the mess Tim Farron made on the issue of Christian beliefs. I question though the sanity of anyone who can argue that a woman should not be able to abort a baby conceived by rape simply because their church tells them it is wrong. He is more reminiscent of Sir Alec Douglas Hume than David Cameron. Personally I do not think he could ever shake off his image of Tory "toff" - and need only detract a few to make the Conservatives less electable.

 

I along with most people disagree with him on the subject of abortion. I would hope that the general public allow him to have personal views based on his religious beliefs as long as it does not override political policy. His toffness ( is that a proper word?) is a problem he needs to work on. His appearances on light entertainment shows suggests he is also minded to adapt his image.

I remember as a schoolboy watching the toff Douglas Hume on Boxmoor struggling to get his views across against a very vocal heckling audience. You need an extremely thick skin to be in senior politics.

 

The press are way behind our forum!!

Left-wing protest spectacularly BACKFIRES as odds for Jacob Rees-Mogg to be PM SLASHED JACOB REES-MOGG'S odds of becoming next Conservative leader have tumbled once again with Ladbrokes as support has rallied...

 

This is not true......

There have always been such incidents....

we could look at for example the behaviour of British troops in Ireland... even the establishment gets up to it

 

I think you would have to prove cause and effect to be right on this one. I do not believe for one second that five idiots in Bristol are that influential. If they are heaven help us. The slashing of odds may have more to do twith Theresa May's continuingly uninspiring performances and the lack of other candidates.