Agree no point harping back to losing run , equally no point harping back to which side of the LJ debate we were on , that's the whole point. I believe we are can all agree at present we are playing attractive football and obviously our position in the league is better than most would have predicted, Let's all be positive about the club we all love , enjoy the ride, and see where it takes us.
Fundamentally scale is cat 1 v cat 2, facility v facility, finance v finance. I think it is not wholly unrealistic to think BCFC can become a club as respected as Southampton are in regards to youth development. The scale of what BCFC are doing now with Mr Lansdowns backing is unparalleled in BCFC's history. All Managerial appointments will have to reflect this. A Warnock, a Cotterill type ... No.
Not sure i'm totally convinced regarding all this youth development, I know it should be the way to go, but how much it does for your club, I'm as yet not convinced....Unless the setup is at Barcelona level. Southampton have done ok, lots of players for other clubs, but for themselves I don't see it has being that great. The likes of Chelsea & Man City......mainly just about the money in my eyes.....Man City have spent nett over 200 million in the last year...I don't see many academy players in their squad set up. As for Chelsea, again massive spenders, but we have Conte saying he is struggling to field a team... Anyway, you will enlighten me why this is so important to the structure of any club, but I'm afraid until I see evidence that these academy players (English) within these clubs turn out like De Bruyne or Aguero I will continue to have my doubts but be open minded and wait with baited breath
100% don't totally agree with this comment 1 for, SOD, likely the worst of the bunch, to defensive and like the rest to a point had his hands tied, Millen and Mac take millen was a stop gap and successful, till he took over with no money to spare and like Mac lumbered with players which we all moaned about and cost a fortune in outgoings... SC was the start of the new era, had money, not a lot, got it all together, had a good spirit and got to the championship to try and emulate the previous seasons success but wouldn't adapt ... in reality Lee inherited a little bit of a base to from ........ SL was fixed on his plan, and relegation would have just been a hindrance, he would, and stated in so many words that might be a path that would manifest itself every pig could be blind, or even blindfolded they do not see them they smell them ... ! HAD WE STARTED LOSING 2-0 OR 3-0 there is no telling what would have been the route! It would have been to late to do an about turn so would likely have gone with the it will take another "3 windows to sort "
Not sure i'm totally convinced regarding all this youth development, I know it should be the way to go, but how much it does for your club ... In Bristol Citys case it has provided two players for the XI who are of a standard the FC would struggle to afford. The cost of their development has been minimal. Southampton have done ok, lots of players for other clubs, but for themselves I don't see it has being that great ... Southampton have had squads of up to 50% drawn from their academy. Southampton made a profit of seventy million pounds from the sale of ex academy players in one season. Over three seasons it is well over one hundred million. These sums are reinvested in players, structure and on the circle goes. It is a circle that has seen Southampton produce some of the finest players the UK has had in Lallana, Bale, Shearer. Recent successful England U teams again contained Southampton players who are featuring in Southampton XI e.g. Ward Prowse ... They have one of the finest academies in Europe.
Yes but that's all well and good for other clubs, is that such a fantastic return for their own team/club? I've not gone into it but be interesting to know their bank balance and if good where it's being used to improve them within the Premiership, not so rosy at the minute. I imagine these players that have come through, the clubs that sell them on make as much if not more profit on them if successful..It's a Crewe but on a larger scale! A Selling club. Two players out of how many for City? again to me that is not many, but I am aware it's early days. I'm still not convinced, but maybe in the future, for me will show better light!
To be fair I'd guess the sums of money they're making in sales alone are easily a large enough return to justify the existence of the academy. And that's ignoring the genuine first-teamers they get out of it.
A Cat 1 academy costs circa two million pounds a season to run. In three season Southampton made over one hundred million is sales from players developed in their academy? Southampton are a club that sometimes makes a operating profit, BCFC have not made a profit for twenty years. They exist in the Premiership v giants with incomes dwarfing theirs. Two players out of how many for City? How much are they worth to BCFC? What is their impact on the XI and club? The academy costs circa 800k (Cat 2) to run. Academy costs are exempt under FFP. Think of the maths. The sale of Joe Bryan could help balance BCFC books. Even with the sale of Kodja BCFC lost money. Apart from the top six all clubs are selling clubs.
Sell your best players, you will never become a big or successful club. By right, the academy should be development for your own club, not others. Maybe, if Southampton kept their best players from their academy, they could be a top 6 Premiership club with Silverware to go with it....TV Rights, European football etc would earn them as much money... We sell Bryan & Reid would reduce our chances of promotion....correct or not? Look, I get the "using the academy to make profit". Just don't agree with selling your best players to do it.... Back to Southampton. had decent players, couple of cracking managers.......Now they find themselves fighting relegation...
Thing is mate, you just said you're not convinced by youth development, but you've said it yourself. If you sell your youth players your quids in, if you don't then you potentially have a much better team (with a value far outstripping the cost of the academy). Surely it's win win?
I'm not saying I'm not convinced with the Academy. It Should be for players to develop your own team.. There would be exceptions of course. Players not wanting to stay, stupid money clubs willing to pay for your excess in certain positions, this would give money to spend on positions the team is short on. To develop players to sell on just to make profit, leaving you short and weak as a team to me is pointless if you want success. (not sure if I've explained very well) Example....Chelsea have a decent academy, but are struggling to put a side together with a natural striker (according to Conte).......don';t make sense..IMO Depends if clubs want to be competitive and look to win things or just looking to survive
For all the comparisons I still think a youth development pathway, into U21's, into senior squad if good enough is the way to go.
I agree Wiz, You shouldn't have to sacrifice your own success for other clubs to benefit. I Must be on the same hymn sheet as LJ, SL & co, who seem to be looking to achieve success this season by not letting our best players go... Could have made a few quid on Bryan, Reid & Flint, but it's worth more to TRY and get into the Premiership....imo makes sense!!
I do not understand your points. In one post you say you are not convinced about youth development now without it BCFC's chances of promotion are reduced! No yputh development very very likely no Joe Bryan. Look, I get the "using the academy to make profit". Just don't agree with selling your best players to do it ... Without selling players last season Bristol City would have lost in the region of fifteen million pounds. A well run academy and prudent selling of players can help sustain the FC. Maybe, if Southampton kept their best players from their academy, they could ... Be risking their existence by attempting to go up against the wealth of clubs like Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Man City, Man Utd, Spurs ... Southampton will not break that monopoly. Southampton ok (your description) academy is part of why (not the all) Southampton out perform far larger clubs, in large Cities, with far more potential and have the opportunity to get in close occasionally to the super clubs.
I'm saying I'm not convinced with academy if it's just to feed other clubs....can't be bothered to keep explaining myself......you don't get my argument....that's fine!!
No I do not get your argument that a loss making football club should not use a cost effective means to balance its massive losses and debts, in an effort to become more sustainable.
I can't really be bothered to keep explaining but I will finish with this; 1. I understand why some smaller clubs (the likes of Crewe) would set up an academy JUST to feed other clubs and use finance of selling players on for their club to stay in existence. 2. I do not understand why the likes of Chelsea, Man C etc would do the same........a) they don't need the finance b) if it's to create quality players for their own clubs, it's failing........Name me Academy players currently in 1st Team of either Man C or Chelsea......But maybe in 5 years time that will change...if not it's pointless. 3. For the likes of Southampton, yes the academy has financed the club over the past 6 years and have been fortunate to have had a bunch of players come through that has made them quite a lot of money.....but I believe a little bit foolish. Foolish, because they have continued to sell their best players rather than trying to be successful in the Premiership...Will they continue to go on selling their best players for profit in exchange for say, premiership status? With the brilliant players that they produce, could they not go on to better things, champions league spot and a trophy or two? If you are successful, your players would be worth even more surely?? 4. For the likes of us, we are trying hard, with a rich owner to get into the premiership..we IMO should be trying to use our academy for our own success. Not just to sell players on. Our Academy should be there to feed our first team, so we don't have to spend 50 mil on players. If you still don't understand my argument.....please continue with your jargon, you won't change my mind. It's how I see it and how I feel it should be done..
