Off Topic Political Debate

Rather than take my word on opinions about Momentum just ask Roy Hattersley. He thinks Momentum's advance has created "Labour's greatest crisis in its history. Time to fight back"

Labour faces subversion by Momentum and far left, says Roy ...

 

I think just about everyone people know about this split....

You could quote something on the anti-Blair factions during the Iraq War for a change couldn't you?

I dont know what you are trying to prove but it just goes on and on....

 

Again, bother to read the previous posts and you may have a little more understanding.

 

I have done week in and week out... you just post pro Tory and anti Labour/libdem/snp/and everybody else rhetoric.... frankly I find your posts very boring. Can you not discuss issues or political philosophy- something people can engage with you on? If you sat in a room with a bunch of Tory policy makers they would actually be dealing with issues etc

 

I must say most of your posts are extremely boring. If you don't approve just let others discuss without your negative comments.

 

In my lifetime there have been a number of governments with large majorities.
Harold Macmillan 100
Harold Wilson 98
Margaret Thatcher 144
Margaret Thatcher 102
Tony Blair 179
Tony Blair 167

There has been only one minority government in that time Harold Wilson in 1974, before the one of the current PM who managed to achieve it, and one genuine coalition government Con/Lib.

So since WWII the governments with the largest majorities have been Labour ones, not Tory. If you wished to try and place these PMs in where they stood on the political spectrum you might try. Mine would put all of them as centrist apart from Thatchers second term. This is where I believe the true UK voter looks. The right or left who stray far from the middle ground will be rejected.

 

The Conservative led governments since 2010 have obviously been accepted by the electorate as the best option so by your analysis must be centrist.

Labour failed miserably with left wing policies under that windbag Michael Foot, the electorate did not want those policies then and it will reject the resurrection of the same in 2022. Corbyn and cronies may want to ride back a few decades in a tardis but are likely to leave the rest of the Labour movement behind.

 

Yes Michael Foot was the wrong person to lead the party, and I am not sure that Corbyn is the right man either. Since 2010 we have had a coalition government for five years, a Tory one with a slender majority of 12, and now one with a minority of 8. My analysis suggests that the Tories have not won the hearts of the voters, and that as the right wing of the party have become more noisy, the voters have moved further away from them. My belief is that people often vote against things they don't like rather than what they approve of. It is probably good for the party to see that the right wing have been pushed back into their conclave.

 

Since 2010 voters have continued see more merit in choosing a right of centre party, they have ensured the socialists have been kept well away from power after the mess the UK was left in. The electorate also firmly reject the wishy washy politics of the Lib Dems having given them an opportunity to actually take some responsibility.

The Momentum surge within the Labour Party will extend the reasons why voters continue to not trust the party to govern. There really is only one natural option, the Tories, who clearly occupy the centre ground of UK politics.

 

There is nothing 'natural' about this it is all circumstantial... A minority of the electorate have voted for the present government.. And they have had to fall back on very questionable allies to succeed.

I suggest your argument will be more acceptable if you be more honest and reality based rather than seek to perpetrate a very questionable dialectic.

Maybe a change of reading matter may help.. The Times for example...

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We need to nail the myth that the Labour Party can only succeed when it moves to the centre. It has only veered to the left once and that was under Michael Foot, but there is no parallel to now. Whilst there were superficial similarities between the Foot manifesto and what Corbyn now wants, there are also differences - Corbyn is more flexible on Trident, is ideologically against the House of Lords but is not hell bent on removing it, like Foot was, the planned nationalizations were more extensive under Foot, and, lastly, Michael Foot was a declared Brexiter. The real difference is that history has moved on. Michael Foot's Labour Party was a last dying ember of Keynesianism being swamped by a rising tide of neo liberalism which was fresh and new. That same neo liberalism (called Thatcherism) is now in its death throes - we have now seen the ravages of free market capitalism and have seen that it is no alternative. For the first time it appears that over 40% of the electorate is prepared to vote for a socialist party. I agree that turning that 40% into the necessary 45% will be very difficult, just as I do not foresee the Tory 40% crumbling overnight. Which means hung parliaments in the immediate future. Since the election no party has had more than a 2% lead over the other and if this trend continues then we are moving into unknown ground. It is highly likely that a party will get the most seats at the next election but be unable to form a government (I cannot see Corbyn being able to head a left of centre coalition). The Tories have no potential coalition partners left (other than the DUP). The 'parties of no consequence', as you call them, may hold the balance of power in the future.

 

In a normal political cycle the opposition is way ahead in the polls, the present Labour Party has not managed that at all which suggests it is struggling to attract the floating voter. There are major concerns amongst the moderates in the Labour Party about the infiltration of the far left, it appears the rest of the country also has its doubts.

 

You need to change your terminology SH. What is happening is that there are major concerns amongst the Blairites (who had themselves instigated a right wing take over of the party - look at how anti Blairites were squeezed out into marginal positions in the past) who are concerned that the party is becoming too democratic, and is being taken over by the grass roots movement of the party. Other than that you answer none of my post whatsoever.

 

I'm not sure the moderates in the Labour Party are worried about democracy but about deselection and being picked on because they do not share far left views. There maybe an uneasy peace at the moment but civil war can break out at any time in the Labour Party. I very much doubt the UK public want to be dragged back into the industrial strife prevalent decades ago.

 

Economic insecurity has become the “new normal” in the UK with at least 70% of the UK’s working population “chronically broke”, according to a study. There are now nearly 1 million people on zero-hour contracts and 1.7 million in temporary work. A record 4.8 million are self-employed, while there are an estimated 1.1 million people in Britain’s gig economy. At the end of the day it will be financial matters that decide the results of elections, and this insecurity will make people wonder just how the current policies have helped them. 70% clearly will not be impressed.

 

The UK public have since 2010 not seen any party apart from the Conservatives as the best option for government. There are no signs at the moment that this will change. The Labour Party should be miles ahead in the polls by now, people just don't trust them on the economy.

 

I am sure that more and more young people will be voting and feel very angry at how things are going. The referendum was are clear marker... And many young people are joining the Labour Party.

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Many young people start off as socialists, when they mature and become more experienced they lean more towards Conservatism. For an opposition party in mid term Labour are polling very poorly, although a good result in the metropolitan local elections in May is forecast. The Tories stunning victory in the local elections tell you that may not always predict future election results.

 

This chart shows clueless teenagers turn into sensible Tories eventually!!

YouGov | How Britain voted at the 2017 general election

 

Equally I'm surprised this political thread is not flooded with old fart Tories!!