Off Topic Political Debate

I think the first comment is hilarious. Typical deriding of this situation you would expect. Right-wing don’t want this because then they would lose misguided feelings of superiority over their fellow man.

 

Meanwhile in the surrounding areas 53% of young are still unemployed living in the Eurozone.

 

On a UK site you'd get the usual comments about Venezuela, money trees or attacks on Corbyn.

If only more people were willing to give it a go...The whole world doesn't need to change, but a few pockets aiming in the right direction would be a great start...

 

Interesting to note that the Labour party has been selecting candidates for seats around the county. Of the 29 that were decided only 7 were for candidates backed by Momentum. I think this rather debunks the theory that the party has been completely taken over.

 

Labour Party centrists have accused Momentum of taking over, they certainly have a stranglehold over the NEC.

Labour centrists express fury about Momentum's ... - The Guardian

Labour faces subversion by Momentum and far left ... - The Guardian

 

Every party has a divergence of opinion within it. A perfect example was the split aired in public between Davis and Rees-Mogg today. Labour is currently being led by a politician who is experienced, but by the time of the next election might be considered to be too old. He has managed to hold things together by being all things to all men, something he would not be able to do if he was running the country. I am not able to comment on the different parties to the left of Labour, cologne would know more than I do, but I always felt that they had very different approaches to how to operate an economy. Every party will have bits in it's manifesto that you might agree with, and other parts you do not. The greater the number of people who are prepared to become members of a party, the greater is the chance of something coming out of their discussions that will appeal to more of the general public. A recent survey of Tory party members rather throws doubt on this as only 38% thought that their views had any influence whatsoever on the policies. What is pretty certain though is that party membership does provide a reservoir of foot soldiers when elections come round. Research shows that at the last general election, amongst other issues, the Labour party had the people out on the ground, something that the Tories couldn't provide, and we all know what happened. It doesn't matter if you agree with Momentum or not, they now have people enthused enough to do their bit, whereas the total collapse in Tory membership has created serious questions about their ability to continue getting their message out.

 

You are right that every party has divergences Frenchie. I think every member of every party only believes in about 80%, at most, of official party policy - and often agrees with other parties on minor points. The difference is whether the party you belong to is responsive to grass roots opinion - I would say that the rank and file of the Labour Party are more involved in framing the direction of their party than the Tories are. What we are seeing now within Labour is a democratization of the party. The PLP has been out of step with the grassroots of the party for a long time and is now being brought to heel. As to the question of whether I am aware of the British political scene left of Labour, I can't help much after 28 years of absence. The party in England I feel closest to is the Green Party, and I suppose some consider them to be left of Labour. I went to a Socialist Worker Party meeting many years ago but found them to be, mostly, brain dead morons who could only plough through crusty old texts looking for solutions and, having found them, proclaiming them to be the one and only truth - a bit like a political version of Evangelists - other than that I can't say. I would be more inclined to look outside of the political framework at trends like the Transition Towns Network.

 

I was thinking about the French left wing parties, where there are socialists, left of socialists, and extreme left of left of socialists. Of course they are so split they never mount any sort of challenge to the established parties.
I was reading an interesting article the other day looking at the way that Macron has come to power. It suggested that the 'old' politics have been rejected by the population, they were looking for something different. It surprises me how much closer to the people the French government is compared to England. There are problems changing the long held views of people here as in the UK, but it is happening as people start to ask why have I always supported a party. The article thought that people had become more inclined to actually think about what was on offer, rather than say I have always voted this way. The other thing I see that is very different is that if you hold a local political meeting is the high turnout. My years in local government were sad in many ways. The people would say you have been elected, so just get on with it, and if we don't like it we will vote you out next time. Not a lot of engagement after they had made the effort to go to the polling station.

 

Labour may have more foot soldiers but they were recently hammered in the local elections and lost the last general election for the third time in a row. The Conservative vote percentage was the highest for 30 years even after scoring a couple of own goals.
Most people, including many Labour voters are uneasy with the policies of the far left and its dependence on the union barons. I agree Corbyn will be too old soon, he is currently Labour's best option despite most MP's having no confidence in him. I cannot see many supporting the foul mouthed McDonnell, he is just an embarrassment to the party.

There will be enough potential candidates to maintain the Tories local and national political dominance.

 

There is no such thing as too old SH. Konrad Adenauer was chancellor of Germany until the age of 86 !

 

I am afraid that you have missed the point of what I was saying. Once again you show that your mind is closed to anything other than your view of what the Tory party is. The split of opinion over the major talking point at present was there for everyone to see today, and that was not taking account of the Tories who would rather not Brexit at all. The government is not there with the blessing of the country remember. It is using your and my money to keep itself in power. If a left wing party did that you would be saying something along the lines that is what you expect from the left.

 

The Tories are in government because they won far more seats than Labour, the public decided they were the best option to remain in government. The public rejected Labour for the third time in a row. They also ensured the Lib Dems remained a small protest vote party again.

The government always spends our money along with masses of borrowed money that the Labour Party intend to massively increase so they can leave a huge debt to our grandchildren.

 

Corbyn's MPs think he is not up to the job, his age will also be a factor in 2022.

 

You do not wish to admit that this is minority government once again. You cannot keep using the same arguments over and over again and expect people to think that you have other than the same programmer that proved so much of a disaster for the PM.

 

Nobody is denying the current Tory government is a minority government but they proved much more popular than the labour Party once again. They will now probably complete a continuous 12 years in government. The own goals in the last election certainly kept some Tory voters at home. That will not happen next time.

The Labour Party turning towards Momentum will not be able to keep the support of the traditional Labour voter, they are warned about this daily by their own MPs. The Momentum surge is a godsend to the Tories, manna from heaven, keep going comrades.

 

I wonder that you always take it upon yourself to state as fact what the average Labour voter thinks. As if you were some kind of mind reader or have access to information that nobody else has. The Labour Party is not going to the left, it is going back to it's roots after it was taken over by the Blairite faction. At least 30% of voters are staunch Labour who carried on voting Labour in spite of Blair, but were, in reality well to the left of him. Labour is a socialist party which is going back to its roots. The main change in British politics is that the poorest 30% of the electorate are now non voters, whereas in the past they were members of the industrial working class and politically active. Corbyn has to convince the new poor to actually get out and vote - if he does so there are no limits.

 

In the last few decades the only time the Labour Party has proved to be electable is when it occupies the centre left ground.
You may not have liked Blair's politics but they proved popular with the UK until the Iraq war and Brown's disastrous boom and bust policies which ended up bust. The majority of the current Labour MP's have consistently warned against Labour's lurch to the left, you really should listen to them. We both would like Momentum to flourish, possibly for different reasons.

 

Can you not rise above bipartite party politics...... and engage in a debate about the problems we all face...... Every time I come on here you are relentlessly posting the same stuff.... it really is very dull

 

Labour MPs’ threat to quit over purge by left wing
Lucy Fisher, Senior Political Correspondent
January 16 2018, 12:01am, The Times

• Politics

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The Momentum founder Jon Lansman was elected to Labour’s influential governing body yesterdayJAKE MATHER/REX/SHUTTERSTOCK
Moderate Labour MPs are threatening to quit and sit as independents in the Commons if they are deselected as the left tightens its grip on the party.

Three Momentum-backed candidates, including Jon Lansman, founder of the pro-Corbyn network, were elected to Labour’s influential governing body yesterday. The leftwingers won the national executive committee (NEC) seats by a landslide, beating moderate and independent candidates including the comedian Eddie Izzard, who came fourth.

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Eddie Izzard and other moderate candidates failed to win any of the available NEC seatsGEOFF CADDICK/AFP/GETTY
The result prompted fears among centrists that the left would push ahead with trying to deselect MPs in favour of candidates who were more aligned with Jeremy Corbyn. The NEC presides over Labour’s rule book, guarantees the propriety of its selection process and helps to oversee policy development.

Branches of Momentum have been vocal…

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I simply responded to a party political post, you need to read the posts.