Well you can add 3 remainers I know to the leave list. Even if there were to be another referendum (which there will not be) the result will be the same. Only just been reading an article in the Guardian which says the same, and that paper is pro European.
Ah bless, you want another referendum. Sadly Watford we have been there and done that. The Remain camp should have rallied their troops instead of trying to win through project fear. Plus the first one hasn't been implemented yet so I don't get what some people are hoping for. Let's have another 10 years after we leave or better still give the same amount of time like the first which I believe was 1975..so lets work that out...sorry being a thick leaver i struggle.... that's 41 Years.
I’m undecided to be honest. It would be interesting though. I agree Remain fought a poor campaign. Should have lied more. Still though, what’s the harm in it if the result is inevitable? I still don’t get what will be so great about leaving that it’s worth any of us being financially worse off, if that proves to be the case, but then I’m just a naive millennial.
Labour MPs’ threat to quit over purge by left wing Lucy Fisher, Senior Political Correspondent January 16 2018, 12:01am, The Times please log in to view this image The Momentum founder Jon Lansman was elected to Labour’s influential governing body yesterdayJAKE MATHER/REX/SHUTTERSTOCK Moderate Labour MPs are threatening to quit and sit as independents in the Commons if they are deselected as the left tightens its grip on the party. Three Momentum-backed candidates, including Jon Lansman, founder of the pro-Corbyn network, were elected to Labour’s influential governing body yesterday. The leftwingers won the national executive committee (NEC) seats by a landslide, beating moderate and independent candidates including the comedian Eddie Izzard, who came fourth. please log in to view this image Eddie Izzard and other moderate candidates failed to win any of the available NEC seats The result prompted fears among centrists that the left would push ahead with trying to deselect MPs in favour of candidates who were more aligned with Jeremy Corbyn. The NEC presides over Labour’s rule book, guarantees the propriety of its selection process and helps to oversee policy development. Branches of Momentum have been vocal about wanting to make it harder for incumbent MPs to be confirmed as candidates for the next general election without facing an open contest. At present an MP needs to win a simple majority of nominations from local party branches and affiliated trade unions and socialist societies in a “trigger ballot”, the vote to confirm them as the candidate. Momentum has proposed raising the threshold to two thirds of nominations. Other left-wing backers of the Labour leadership want to go further and introduce mandatory reselection before every general election, forcing incumbents to face challengers. Centrist MPs told The Times that if they were deselected, they would quit and sit as independents in a bloc for the remainder of this parliament. One said: “There’s no reason to wait it out [in Labour] for years when we disagree with the direction of the party if we’re deselected. We would have no interest in toeing the line.” Another centrist Labour MP issued a warning to the left, saying: “Corbyn has a lot to lose from going down this route. If people start being deselected, what’s to stop them standing against him for the leadership? Or finding other jobs and causing by-elections that Labour might lose?” The source added: “If you want to look like a united government in waiting, the last thing you want is a whole load of bitter selection rows.” please log in to view this image Left-wing activists and the far-left blog Skwawkbox have in recent weeks seized on the fact that the party’s rule book contains provisions to host trigger ballots this summer. Centrists fear that the left will press its advantage and go ahead with the ballots. Last night the party said: “Labour is currently focused on selecting candidates in the most marginal seats held by our opponents. Any other selections would need to be decided by the NEC.” Rules on selections may change as part of the party’s “democracy review” by Katy Clark, the former MP and political secretary to Mr Corbyn. Proposals including mandatory reselection are being considered. Momentum has said that it is not actively pushing for deselections but has championed members having a greater say over all aspects of the party, which critics have interpreted as tacit support for making deselection easier. NEC’s left-wing arrivals Jon Lansman A key figure on the far left of the party for decades, he worked on Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership campaign and founded Momentum, the network of pro-Corbyn activists which has been accused of conspiring to deselect centrist MPs. Mr Lansman, 60, who is Jewish, has spoken out against antisemitism in Labour and says there is “a lot of denial” about the problem. Yasmine Dar A Labour member for about five years, she has risen through the ranks and sits on the party’s northwest regional board. Last year Ms Dar, 51, fought for Labour’s nomination in Manchester Gorton but lost out to the former MEP Afzal Khan. She has worked for Rethink, the mental health charity. Rachel Garnham A Labour activist for 20 years, she is a representative on Labour’s national policy forum and has been secretary of the Mid-Bedfordshire constituency branch for a decade. Describes herself as anti-austerity, anti-war and anti-racism.
We keep being told we will be worse off but it has not been proven either way. agree after the vote the markets changed but that was more about a lot of rich twats getting richer off poor sods. The dollar was overinflated and all this downturn was inevitable. Brexit was a good excuse for a lot of stuff. Just you wait the NHS will be the fault of Brexit in 2 years and not the fact that multiple governments have not addressed the problem. I was once told that "things can only get better" and I saw our country deceived. I was told by our government that Saddam Hussain had WMD's and he didn't. What was the biggest lie for me was that we were told by our Prime minister and that Wassel Geoff Hoon that our brave soldiers would have the right equipment for war and they didn't. They stripped tanks in Germany and locally to make up numbers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our soldiers had to share bulletproof vest and even bullets...Bullets FFS. Both sides in the Brexit debates were telling porkies. We have had many people using food banks even before Brexit. Companies making people redundant. This is a good one for you Watford...2 of the biggest companies that employed many people in the area you now live, moved to France and some other EU country. All long before Brexit. Agree there is uncertainty and I for one enjoy being able to visit Europe without the hassle but if it means that counties like Spain/France/Greece etc make us wait at customs or make things harder then I won't, like many others, holiday there. let's see how long their economies last without all the British tourists? Especially when the US and Canada, Australia start offering cheap holidays. Do I believe the £350M (£200m really) will go to the NHS? No, I don't think it will. It will be used on other stuff as well. I think it comes down to this...The EU would not change and doesn't want to. We were always an outsider whether people like it or not. The whole EU project is geared up for Germany and German business with the mini-me French trying to get a slice. It is run in Brussels by a bunch of twats that live in another World. These people do not know you exist or care about you or your family. All they care about is the handouts they receive from us. For me, we are better off out and the quicker the better. However, I also understand the other side of the coin. So answer to your question after 1000 words of waffle is our destiny is in our own hands and not some twat in Brussels.
Now that the Donald has passed his mental abilities tests now that we know hes almost clinically obese we can start calling him a fat ****
Genuine question here regarding brexit. As I've stated before, I didn't vote due to lack of understanding and to be truly honest I'm still non the wiser. I know what it's like to be part of the EU, I've grown up with it. The question is - What will be better or beneficial more than it is now by leaving? Bendy bananas and blue passports are not answers I'm looking for, serious facts only please. I need help in understanding this.
Interesting that no Leave voters have responded to this. May be down to the time difference to where I am. I think it depends on the nature of the final deal with the EU. In my opinion most of the differences (personally I don’t see them as benefits) will be intangible and emotional, around ‘taking back control’, sovereignty, independence. As this is undeniably important to some people, it shouldn’t be ignored. It’s possible that some of this ‘control’ can be used to increase the competitiveness of some sectors of the economy, but that can only be judged in the light of the final agreement and it will remain to be seen how this will benefit ordinary people. I think the promise of trade deals with lots of other countries is a bit of a red herring, we already have deals with 55 countries through the EU (excluding EU countries) which will have to be renegotiated. Again, if we do get trade deals I think we should judge them by benefits to ordinary people, not just shareholders. If a trade deal with the US leads to workers at company X getting a pay rise, it’s good. The area of biggest change may be immigration. It’s falling already and will probably fall more, even if (in my view) the government lacks the tools and resources to effectively manage it (just look at non EU immigration). While people like me think this will actually damage our economy, that’s not the point as I think a large number of people voted leave on this issue and there are genuine and understandable concerns about levels of immigrants in some areas. So, Brexit might well deliver on this issue. Whether people who live in areas where there are already high numbers of immigrants in the population will actually see any difference is another question, that would depend on people voluntarily leaving which I guess would depend on how well the economy is doing, how well accepted they feel, and what they have to go back to. Finally there is the cash, the alleged ‘Brexit dividend’. I am struggling to see how this actually exists, given the £ billions we expect to pay the EU, and the £ billions we will have to spend maintaining grants that come from the EU and replacing infrastructure and functions currently provided by the EU. If any government increases public spending or cuts taxes and directly attributes it to savings from leaving the EU, then we will know. Obviously this is written from my, remain, perspective, but I have tried to be a little balanced and avoid inflammatory language. I suspect that it will be very difficult to disentangle the benefits and downsides of leaving from what happens due to the general global economy and our own, unrelated to EU government policy, and the same would be true if we stayed.
Thanks for youre opinion mate. I'm stuck between 2 warring brothers one remain, one leave. Taking back control comes up often but when I genuinely ask 'of what?' I don't get an answer. As for figures £/€ then nobody really has any answers for that and only time will reveal them. I really wasn't bothered about being in the EU, it didn't make me feel any more patriotic than if we were not in it.
Copied from FB. Rather good, I think I see you, Jeremy Hunt. I see the cheeky little skip in your step, your smile wide and smugger than a cat drowning in cream. You’ve walked out of Number 10 with an expanded job title and the failing gastric band around your ego significantly loosened, so it’s off to Twitter to congratulate yourself you go. Of all the intolerable facets of your weapons-grade, cast-iron, copper-bottomed bell-end of a personality, the one that will always be so far beyond my comprehension that I have to look at it through the Hubble telescope has to be your capacity for self-delusion. Not once have I ever doubted that you honestly believe you’re doing a good and noble job. You’re the insane resus nurse who takes the pat on the back for saving the old man’s life despite the fact he was the mad prick who injected the air bubble into the IV line in the first place. You’re a preposterously deluded caricature of a man, a corporate ****heel juggling figures on a spreadsheet, unwilling and incapable of looking beyond them to see the human cost of your every ****bucket-useless decision. It is beyond absurd that Theresa May is so utterly weak that you were able to talk her out of shuffling you out of your post. Quite how nobody has been able to wrench the staff from the palsied claws of the Skeksis Emperor at this point is baffling. Her night of the long knives was less of a cull than a series of hot stone massages for the bafflingly incompetent. She was like a hangman working with bungee cords, with the only borderline actual human in Justine Greening having the decency to at least step off the gallows after she’d undone her own noose. David Davis is still in, despite doing so little work preparing for Brexit that he’s singlehandedly responsible for the UK’s poor productivity rating. Then, under the buzz of the swarm of locusts heralding the return of Esther McAntichrist, Jeremy Hunt manages to talk himself into a promotion. I don’t know which bubble Theresa May is living in, but it must be soundproof and there’s absolutely no way it’s tuned in to even the loudest and angriest thrumming of basic public opinion. Even the most adamant Conservative voter would be hard pressed to defend your managing of the NHS, which is probably best described as “casually pissing gasoline onto a raging bonfire.” Even if the grand Tory plan really is privatisation by the back door, you’ve been a total failure in achieving it subtly. So you’re either doing a terrible job of operating clandestinely or you’re doing a terrible job of… well, the actual job. You are an absolute ****ing fraud, Jeremy Hunt, and your complete lack of shame is as galling as it as abhorrent. The NHS is not failing. It is being failed, on every level, by a government and a health minister that would rather see it die and harvest its organs for profit than supply it with the funding it so desperately needs. Even in the face of the most spectacular failures, with health professionals at every level calling you on your bullshit, we’re offered nothing but pathetic deflections. There can’t be a winter crisis because you’ve prepared for a crisis - so which is it? There can’t be a shortage of staff because you cherry-pick the figures so hamfistedly every Ralf Little and his dog can see right through them. Escalating privatisation is not your fault because Labour started it - so what, you’re allowed to kick the victim to death because you didn’t throw the first punch? Wouldn’t it be nice if we could actually admit that there’s a giant ****ing problem and that innocent people are dying when they shouldn’t have to, rather than just shouting “Trotsky!” and “but Venezuela!” when the Tories are called up on their bullshit? You are a shameless, spineless, manipulative and wretched little creature, stretching those that have committed their lives to helping others in their most desperate moments to their absolute breaking point for nothing other than your own selfish ideological reasons. You’ll herald them as heroes whilst stripping them of the basic ability to function in their impossible roles, doffing your hypocrite’s cap to them as they leave the service in droves. Is the NHS going to struggle moving forwards in a society with an ever-ageing population? Of course it is. But its inefficiencies and failures now are not coincidental to years of Conservative policy. They are intrinsically connected to it, the safety nets stripped away, the incentives for new nurses and doctors burned or sold off to the lowest bidder. And the most ridiculous lie of all? That starving the NHS of investment is a necessity, part of the burden of tightening our belts that we all have to bear. Never mind that a healthy workforce is a more productive one, that genuinely effective mental health provision would save the country money, or that expanding and improving both healthcare and research would actually create jobs. None of that matters, for no other reason than it doesn't fit the failed narrative of austerity. You have no right to wear that NHS badge, Jeremy Hunt. You and your cronies are about as welcome on the frontline of a hospital as MRSA or a violent drunk in A&E. And there is not enough gauze in the underfunded stores of every hospital in the country to plug the yawning void in your chest where your sense of shame should be. I see you, Jeremy Hunt. I ****ing see you.
Macron: French charities tell migrants lies about seeking asylum in Britain Adam Sage, Calais January 17 2018, 12:00am, The Times please log in to view this image President Macron said migrants were dissuaded from seeking asylum in FranceBenoit Tessier/Reuters Charities in Calais are using lies and manipulation to encourage migrants to go to Britain, President Macron has claimed. Speaking to police officers and soldiers at the port yesterday, Mr Macron said that charity workers were dissuading migrants from seeking asylum in France. Mr Macron outlined his immigration and asylum policies before talks with Theresa May in Sandhurst tommorow. He said he would “evoke with Theresa May several issues that we must improve in our joint management. Better handling the question of lone children migrants, reinforcing police co-operation. . . and releasing funds to support important projects for the development of the Calais area: those are the points we will carry . . . in the dialogue we will have with our British friends.”
I can fully respect and understand why the vote went the way it did although I did not see it at the time. I believe whatever happens then it’s been a good thing. I say this as at the eleventh hour if the opportunity comes up whether it’s 100% finalised or not I can still a massive swing to remain once all details are understood ( Will take 15 years to level out if we do leave imo) This whole process is reform for both the EU and the U.K. whatever happens. If it completes only then imo will everyone see it was a bad step. We simply do not produce enough to match our consumer hunger so the changes I believe will hit people very hard. There will no excuses for government or industry to rebuild The question I ask is will the people be up for such a cultural change. I believe it will be very bad to start with Remember it’s 52/48 so I expect a right old battle
