1. Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Religion is Bullsh*t, Get over it, and support science.

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by Kyle?, Aug 18, 2011.

?

Are Gods Real?

  1. Yes

  2. No

  3. I've seen Led Zep live, therefore, God's do exist.

Multiple votes are allowed.
Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    No once again you are failing to get the point as it doesnt suit your argument
    I have ,again, stated that the surah does indeed speak about judgement day, so where is the dispute?

    we kow now it happens all the time as in stars dying, we didnt 1400 years ago is the point

    when did science find out/prove this? before or after the quran? THAT IS THE POINT

    frankly your using baseless rational to detract from the issue

    stars have probably died before humans, again not the issue. The quran knew this before hubble etc, thats what YOU need to attention to

    hubble went up in the 90's and found things that were mentioned, in whatever context, 1400 years ago
     
    #861
  2. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    this was a response to some one else, but anyhooo

    yes you did , you asked why matter cant just exist, without a creator


    and how can you say there is no evidence of anything being created from nothing? where did matter come from? the big bang etc?

    As for the creation of god i have addressed this a few times, either dispute/counter or leave it
     
    #862
  3. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    Whats sad is that you are clearly unable to address/explain/counter a point without semantics/avoidance

    explain how a book, allegedly written by an illiterate man, talks about dying stars (in whatever context) when no technlology existed to know this?

    bein critical is fine, but with foundation/basis.
     
    #863
  4. Trypsin-1

    Trypsin-1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2011
    Messages:
    6,126
    Likes Received:
    19
    WHO GIVES A ****

    I'm on Yonner's side for once
     
    #864
  5. Jip Jaap Stam

    Jip Jaap Stam General Chat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    15,541
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    Alcohol in moderation is fine. If not done sensibly, it can cause problems, but so can a lot things. Driving for example. Should we ban drivers because bad drivers cause accidents?

    Pigs are actually very intelligent. But more importantly, very tasty and nutritious. Nobody is asking you to live with them, and yes, they might live in squalor, but being heated to a certain temperature when cooked removes any harmful toxins, so that is a moot point.

    What about people who work hard and save? Shouldn't they be rewarded as opposed to people who piss their money up the wall?

    It's inconvenient, and in my view, pointless. Nobody is listening. And if he/she is real and is listening, and actually has the power to make things better but simply won't he/she is the biggest ****** in the world and doesn't deserve the attnetion of millions several times a day.

    I know several Muslims at work who don't use toilet roll. They take little cups of water into the toilet and clean their arse with that (they dip their fingers in the water). The toilet roll is only used for drying. Pretty unhygienic if you ask me, certainly more so than eating a cooked animal.

    It's one of the most unnatural things in the world to force people to enter into a legally-binding contract before they can commit an act that is as normal as eating or drinking.

    I don't have any problem with Islam. If that's what people want to follow, good luck to them. I just think it shouldn't be forced on people. And Islam, with some of it's more tenuous doctrines, is forced on a lot of people. Like a lot of religions.
     
    #865
  6. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    @Jip

    those who force it on people are diobeying the faith. no compulsion in faith and all thhat

    the water/paper issue is WWW. ie Wipe, Wash, Wipe. either those people are fools or your making things up

    as for the fornication, swine, establishment of prayers

    yeah some of it seems hard etc but once you believe it to be the truth etc then it becomes common sense

    eg i think its harder and more complicated conforming to what is hip/happening than praying 5 times a day
     
    #866
  7. Jip Jaap Stam

    Jip Jaap Stam General Chat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    15,541
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    1 - But large portions of the Muslim world force it on their people. Even in this country, many Muslim girls would be in serious **** if they got a white boyfriend or were promiscuous.

    2 - Aren't they actually supposed to use stones, and do it an odd number of times? Or some such ridiculous bollocks. Even if they do wipe first (I've never discussed it in that much detail with Muslim co-workers), it's still unhygienic to be touching ****, even if your fingers are wet.

    3 - Why is it common sense to avoid pork? When it is cooked, it is perfectly clean, and it is very tasty and nutritious.

    4 - Mot being religious, like me, doesn't mean you have to be a fashion-victim or sheep. You could just have your own mind and follow no one.

    Like I've said, I have no particular problem with Islam. Most religions have ridiculous doctrines, eg circumcision in Judaism, opposition to birth-control in Catholicism, sacred cows in Hinduism.
     
    #867
  8. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    1 - lots of people/countries do weird shoite under the guise of religion,morals,the law etc. the idea is to find out if its true or not. when you say 'white' your alluding that it is about race and its not. colour has nothing to do with it. this is what makes your arguments seem 'ignorant' with all due respect. as for promiscuity i dont think anyone (apart from teenage lads) sees that as a good thing

    2 - no. and no. the whole point is to wipe and wash (even though wiping is sufficient, and the washing is often cultural, are the guys in your office pakistani?) and it is more hygienic (like a bidet) as long as you wash your hands. again seems a bit ignorant tbh

    3 - put that way it doesnt make sense, i agree. what i was saying is if you accept there is god, and the quran is his word then its common sense to do as it ays and not do what it says. i could go into the science of pork, but its enough to not eat it as i accept

    4 - again i wasnt implying that, what i was implying is that for me thhere is more hassle in the whole going out, doing x y and z than praying 5 times a day. i have an 8 year old who has been fasting, no food and water from dusk till dawn. i thought it would be hard for him, its been a piece of cake for him
     
    #868
  9. Jip Jaap Stam

    Jip Jaap Stam General Chat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    15,541
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    White, non-Muslim, different kind of Muslim, whatever, me saying "white" was just an example. I've spoken to Muslim girls who have said their dads would (in their words) "beat the **** out of them" if they took an inappropriate boyfriend. One girl I used to work with has had no contact with her family for over 10 years due to her choice of a non-Muslim father for her children. That child has grown up without half her family as a result. As for promiscuity, I disapprove of that myself, but the answer should not be physical chastisement as it is in many Muslim communities.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_toilet_etiquette
    So stones, traditionally, were preferred. Yes, the guys are pakistani. And it's only hygienic if you use anti-bacterial soap, the stuff that kills 99.9% of germs. Normal soap wouldn't really be enough if you're directly touching faeces. I don't see why that makes me ignorant.

    But doesn't the Qu'ran ask Muslims to be "most harsh" to non-believers and to kill Jews? I presume you don't subscribe to those elements?

    My son is autistic. Imagine if my family was Muslim? Getting him to fast would be impossible, we would have to sedate him. What is Islam's view on that?
     
    #869
  10. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    i sympathise with the examples you give, but it works both ways. i have 2 asian mates and a black mate. all married to white non muslim girls. their parents have nowt to do with them. ones lot turned up at his house threatening to batter him, made her have an abortion and allsorts. shoite happens. again look at the faith and see if that agrees/disagrees.
    a lot of muslim countries are not muslim. i dont see saudi arabia as a muslim country, and neither does islam. yes muslims are the majority, but check the constitution

    wikki? come on? yes stones are used where paper isnt available etc, as for the anti-bacterial soap, again come on

    its not a case of subscribing. these are quotes out of context. eg 'kill them where you find them' is often used. its in a verse about fighting and defense. if you read it all it says make treatys, if they surrender escort them off the battle field to a safe place under your protection, if thy break the treatys and attack you then kill them

    similar with being harsh. its a lost in translation thing and the jews enjoyed what they call 'the golden years' with the muslims. the muslims are the only people never to have persecuted the jews, and fought for them inc ww2

    i have a son who has autism along with other things. he would not fast. the 8 year old doesnt have to either, he wanted to. and found it easy was the point

    again culture and ignorance plays a part. eg if a woman is pregnant she should not fast. i know many muslim women who do, because they think it 'increases' their faith where as in actual fact they are taking nourishment off the baby and so wrong to do so.
     
    #870

  11. Jip Jaap Stam

    Jip Jaap Stam General Chat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    15,541
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    You obviously know your **** when it comes to Islam and I may be ignorant on a few things I suppose. As I say though, each to their own. If Islam is applied properly then it's fine, it's just when it's corrupted to control people, but this is the case with most religions. On thing I won't back down on though is toilet issue, I just think it's wrong. Everytime I go to the toilets at work, there are little plastic cups dotted about, and it just seems a bit minging.

    How old is your autistic son anyway? Does he talk?
     
    #871
  12. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    i agree each to their own. i do believe however that whatever conclusion is reached should be informed. what doesnt help is the 'truth' doesnt get the attention the bullshoite gets.

    tbh the water is more to do with istinja, than washing arses. but as i say 'muslims' dont always know themselves

    my sons 6, yeah he talks but not as a 'normal' 6 year old. the autism is the least of his worries though, he has osteogenesis imperfecta, and they wanted him aborted, then said birth would kill him, then gave him 3 weeks. used to fracture a lot, been through the mill but happiest kid you will ever see
     
    #872
  13. Jip Jaap Stam

    Jip Jaap Stam General Chat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2011
    Messages:
    15,541
    Likes Received:
    2,320
    **** me mate, sounds like he's got it tough. My lad's 5, his autism is quite severe and he doesn't say a word. But physically he is bigger, stronger, more agile, fitter and faster than kids a couple of years older, so I suppose it's swings and roundabouts.
     
    #873
  14. thefanwithnoname

    thefanwithnoname Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2011
    Messages:
    15,399
    Likes Received:
    2,952
    yeah was harsh early on. had to hold it together for mrs and that

    had to look at cemetaries/funeral arrangements etc, all based on the 'experts' advice.

    went through a mini breakdown of sorts when things got better, but wouldnt change him for the world

    i used to be the 'might be better off..' brigade, but you just adapt and life goes on. and he is such a happy guy etc i would argue against anyone who says they would abort due to disability as it would be best for the child
     
    #874
  15. jerseymackem

    jerseymackem Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2011
    Messages:
    3,276
    Likes Received:
    7
    Oh, ****, not this again. I'm not going to bother reading the whole thing, but I will say this.
    I was at World Youth Day in Madrid for the past two weeks (for those who don't know it's a massive Catholic youth festival). The climax is a vigil with all the attending youth and the Pope in a large outdoor venue, with mass the following morning. The unofficial figures show about 2.5 million people attending the closing mass. To get to the airfield where this was taking place, you had to walk. It was advertised as 'a shaded walk of witness with regular stopping points'. It was sheer hell, there was no shade to speak of and a 2 hour stroll became a 5 hour living hell. We had to keep stopping; 3 people we came across (one of which was in our group) were close to dying of heatstroke and dehydration. When we finally arrived at the airfield, they had shut the gates, as there was no more room at all. We waited there for a couple of hours, missing the Pope's arrival. Then a horrendous storm blew up, destroying some of the structures. Terrified people were bolting out, so we had room to get in. When we finally got in, the Pope was just about to start Adoration of the Eucharist. It started, and the rain stopped, the wind slowed to a gentle breeze. After this had finished, the rain and wind started up again, and we found somewhere to sleep for the night in the field.
    I'm not sure of this counts as a religious experience, but it was certainly powerful and one of the most beautiful moments of my life. I believe that there is a God, a benevolent God who, maybe indirectly, created each one of us.
     
    #875
  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,661
    So we're clear that people will still do things that are forbidden, even with a death penalty hanging over their heads, then?
    So that's not a reason to find that the Quran is definitely unaltered.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2000/aug/08/highereducation.theguardian

    I can find more, if you'd like.
     
    #876
  17. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,661
    You're just choosing to ignore obvious flaws in what you're saying.
    It's the internet equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying, "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!", over and over.

    Claiming that one man thought the Quran contained an accurate account of human embryology is irrelevant, regardless of who that man is.
    If the foremost expert on Islam said that it was false, would you believe him?

    Earth didn't mean universe to the Greeks.
    Where did you get that from?
    Why would they have tried to measure the circumference of the Earth, if that were true?
     
    #877
  18. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,661
    I said that matter could just exist, not that it could just have been created.
    If something is eternal, then creation is irrelevant.

    The Big Bang doesn't suggest that matter came from nowhere.
    Look it up.

    You haven't addressed the obvious flaw in your thinking about creator why god doesn't need a creator, yet matter does.
    Sorry.
     
    #878
  19. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,661
    No, what's sad is that you're utterly unable to accept that you're wrong.

    Firstly, the passage that you're talking about is often translated to mean dimming stars and not dying.
    Secondly, the surah it's in is talking about the end of mortal existence, where everything will be destroyed, including mountains and stars.
    It's got nothing to do with technology at all.

    Why you're fundamentally unable to see what I'm talking about here astounds me, frankly.
    I can only think that you don't want to.
     
    #879
  20. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
    Forum Moderator

    Joined:
    May 31, 2011
    Messages:
    96,169
    Likes Received:
    55,661
    Just as a sidenote, it's nice to hear from 2 people dealing well with a difficult situation.
    Just because somebody isn't identical to the majority, doesn't make them any less valuable a person.
    Diversity is a strength.
     
    #880

Share This Page