But if they believe racism exists in an organisation then making sure ethnics are represented is the first step in eradicating it. Like I said it's difficult to think that an organisation that is still undoubtedly Caucasian heavy has a discrimination agenda. There's a saying 'You can please some of the people some of the time but you can't please all of the people all of the time' I can see the logic in the campaign.. ultimately it should be the best man for the job...but that's not how life works. Sometimes people have to take physical steps in changing the ethos of an organisation if they think there is a problem which shows them in a bad light. So how do you solve it? When the problem indicated in the past is racism therefore if it should be the best man for the job how do you know racism never played a role? After all it's only the best man for the job according a bunch of people when it might have been a different bloke had it been a different bunch of people conducting the interviews. The problem is racism...and they are tackling it...maybe they didn't realise that they would still be seen as discriminatory against Caucasian folk even though it is 90% Caucasian as an organisation.
I speak for myself and I don't want any favours. However if I'm an ethnic minority and an organisation I am interested in or involved in has proven itself to be discriminatory in the past then I might be glad that someone somewhere is taking steps to change it. Like I said maybe this is one of the steps in eradicating the racism? Making sure they are amongst those they discriminate against. They might just weed themselves out Plus yeah I know you can't change society but people try to change their organisations, that is do able with some effort. However the fact that it exists and has done for decades means racists were employing racists. They don't want that no more so unless ethnics start to discriminate against Caucasian folk, I don't see a problem with breaking that pattern by sticking a few Ethnics in. It's a long term project to weed out the ****ty people. Mixing it up is a step in the right direction.
I'd like to see the FA's evidence of discrimination. No doubt there are a few old boys about who perhaps are but how do you prove that? How do we not know that people are being employed because they're more qualified, experience, suitable for the job? Are we not better tackling education and problem schools to enable all ethnicities have access to a decent qualification? I'm uncomfortable with discriminating one group to benefit another. That is not equal opportunity.
One of the problems with that approach though, is that if individuals are appointed who clearly would not have been if not for fulfilling a "quota" then the credibility of such individuals is seriously undermined from the outset ... far from then being able to change and shape an organisation from the inside, the likelihood is that they would become increasingly marginalised and less able to influence direction ... I don't have the answer ... but I can see the potential problems
I don't have the answers either...I just think people get too caught up in 'thats not fair's when it's obvious why certain measures are being taken
The world is not a fair place mate. Someone will always be offended. However for me I don't think an organisation that is 90% Caucasian and faces the threat of becoming 85% Caucasian has an agenda against Caucasians. I think there is another reason for the ploy. All I can think of is what I have stated in my previous posts.
Exactly, then the future generations will not be racist, and the problem will correct itself. History has taught us that if you try to legislate equality, you just meet resistance and it gets violent and people suffer. Case in point the Black Panthers vs KKK in the US back in the 60's, now the Black Lives Matter movement VS pretty much everyone these days. Whilst I agree with BLM's principle statement, (That Black youths are murdered disproportionately by US police, especially unarmed black youths) the way they have gone about it has been shocking and completely unhelpful. People should take a look at Martin Luther King, he knew how to effect change, and should look less at ****ing morons like Malcolm X, who did more harm than good.
Yup I cannot help but feel the FA is approaching this from the wrong angle albeit with honest, good intentions.
I think we could keep discussing this for ages mate! Its true the world is not a fair place but I don't think making it more unfair to one group to promote another is the answer.
I don't think things are as simple as people are putting it and I don't believe something like the Rooney rule is a long term solution. The issue here is embedded discrimination, and on both sides. What I mean is that if you take the police service example, black/brown people don't consider joining and the police accept they don't join. To change this mindset on all levels you have to start somewhere and change that mindset. Once changed you go back to normal processes. In the long run it helps all Similarly in sport there are plenty of examples of people not being advanced due to colour. It was in 1991 when someone in football said you need the skill and flair of the black players but still need the brains of white players. If I was Chris Houghton I would wonder why I couldn't keep a job at Newcastle and likes of allardyce and pardew get jobs I am never considered for. Looking around the Rooney rule has helped put black coaches at the forefront in American football and quotas in south African cricket have not only uncovered gems but also changed a mindset that naturally would have taken decades if at all
Couldn't disagree more with this MLK was a clown compared to BP and Malcolm X in advancing black rights. Its fact that things like the housing laws in america would never have happened if it wasn't for the BP. MLK was a **** as was ghandi but it suites the narrative to promote them as to promote the real change makers would be to say."of you want change take up arms etc"
Malcolm X wasn't an idiot he gave strength to people who needed it when they were being hung from trees and used as firewood. People who were not allowed to sit where they wanted to on a bus. It's ok when you are discussing it over the net with a cup of tea and a vape to hand, you can always be idealistic. However not everyone is open to change therefore some people take the bull by the horns in life because they have had enough. Like you said yourself, you can't make people stop being racist, therefore sometimes you have to have a revolution of sorts. Sitting around tables only managed to get blacks onto the buses, even then they had to sit at the back. When the fighting back started, things really started to change. I've got no problems seeing someone who thinks ******s are inferior human beings get a good ****ing kick in.
They would do because they have the comfort to. However when you are in that situation then sometimes you have to fight back. Someone with a pillow over their head with two eyes holes cut out, camped outside your house threatening to burn your house down deserves a thorough beating of the highest order.
I don't mind disagreement mate its how we learn and move forward. Looking at certain things in detail is a passion and although I would always agree some things start as a good cause and go too far we can't ignore the positive they had Interesting thing about the BP, the breakfast clubs for kids in schools was a programme they started in America Interesting thing about MLK he was under investigation and a file on him existed where he was shown to be a drunkard and woman beating scumbag, but was hushed up. Also the guy he copied, whose name I forget but James earl Jones played him in a film, always said the "I have a dream" soeach was plagiarised. This is accepted fact now and the MLK organisation will tell you that he plagiarised many speaches and his qualifications too, if asked of course
Likes of malcom x were hated by certain sections as they taught people that they needn't take **** There us an old question as to why a ****load of black people on a plantation didn't take out the few white people committing atrocities on them. The answer was a mindset of inferiority. Black panthers and Malcolm x changed that mindset. Similarly in India manybof the people who impacted change were labelled terrorists and nobheads like ghandi promoted
They do..... Oh **** the KKK, they can all die as far as I am concerned, at least the ones who use to lynch folk back in the day, I aint talking about them. But someone who looks down on black people and calls them "******s", getting a kicking by black people, what do you think that will have taught him? It will just reinforce his hatred of black people, or even if you say "**** him, he is racist", what about his children, and their children. Amidst violence, racism just perpetuates itself, always has and always will. That's why Ghandhi and MLK are looked upon as Civil Rights Heroes and Malcolm X and the BP are looked back on as violent, equally racist, thugs, scarcely better than those they purported to be fighting against. I get what you mean by the idealism Spurlock. Black people in the South especially, back in the 60's, who knows what that kind of unjust and unfair treatment would have done to me if I was suffering it. But times have changed, maybe that level of discrimination needed to be met with some level of violence.....back then. I am just glad things are better now.....not perfect, but better.
Broadly agree with your Hughton point other than using Fat Sam as the anecdote ... whilst personally I wouldn't want Sam at my club as I'm not a big fan of the way he likes to set up his teams ... however, he is the "Red Adair" of 'Premiership survival' and is therefore very marketable to nervous chairmen hovering around the relegation trap door ... the likes of Pardew, Moyes, Avram Grant, Sherwood, Monk and McLaren on the other hand
Who sees BP and Malcolm x as racist thugs? BP grew out of the pacifist civil rights movement and even the name black panther was chosen as a black panther doesn't strike first Their initial agenda was all about equality in housing, education and promoting black history. All achieved by the way and achieved because of them not MLK
