Holgate and Firmino incident !

I said quite clearly here, I hope it’s a misunderstanding. The lynch mob here want him done for assault.

 

So it homophobia. Not a 15 year old having banter with friends.

 

I don’t think his reaction is of someone who made it up, for me at worst it’s a misunderstanding.

 

Nah, that doesn't wash PJ.


http://metro.co.uk/2016/08/27/racis...ley-striker-andre-grays-fa-rap-sheet-6094521/

Retro hate came back to bite Andre Gray on the arse, so no wonder Holgate tried to get rid of the homophobic tweets.

 

So there's an age limit on homophobia now. In any case why wouldn't he go back and edit them when he was 'old enough' to know it was unacceptable??

 

Hmmm...not sure that's fair.

Been a wide acceptance that it's possible he could have said it. Is there a hope he didn't on here? Of course. Is that to "catch Holgate out" or more just don't want to believe another Liverpool player has done this.

As for any anti Holgate sentiment I think it stems from fear. There's not much worse you can be accused of these days than racism, (other than the various assaults etc) I'd say as a public personality it's even worse. There's that instinct that if you were wrongly accused of something as bad, it would be difficult to accept the accusation was misguided rather than malicious...thats human nature. We as supporters transfer that feeling on to our player.

And yes, there is a healthy dose of scepticism about how the FA will handle this due to the Suarez events. (Our club wasn't covered in glory in its handling either)

Personally I'm just hoping the clubs, officials and FA have learned how to do this better. That if there's no evidence he said it it is not worded to pat Holgate on the head... I.e. "sorry we couldn't pin it on him" language rather than "theres no evidence he said it, end of investigation" that's a neutral statement; it does not call Holgate a liar and it does not say Firmino got away with it. It just says what it says.

If he did say it they need to have a confession or very clear evidence he did. Not just a "we found him more believable than him"

 

Which is what happened in the Wright/Shmeichel spat, the FA basically called Ian Wright a liar and believed the keeper(with the added pressure from Fergie), Wright said that he bumped into Fergie at an event a few years later and Fergie accused him of playing the "racism card", Wright said from that moment he lost all respect for Fergie.
Can't blame him IF he really did get racially abused.

But that proves your point Frank, we pin our flag to the mast because we want to believe what we believe based on bias.

 

Yup and people naturally want to be on the side of right.

As supporters of a club we through that support also support the team players. Nobody wants to be associated with a person doing something wrong.

And the tribal nature leaks in: we want our guy to be innocent, their guy to be guilty.

Take that away and most of us have said we'd actually prefer if it was somehow a big misunderstanding and no one is a racist or a race baiter.

It's not very satisfying in a "we were right" way but it at least means there's no actual scumbag.

 

yes I've been quite clear. there are at least 2 words we've not seen on video that firmino said we need to know what they are as those look to be what holgate reacted to

It's clear nobody wants a racist incident. I take holgate on face value anyway. he seems a complete little ****bag who tried to hurt an opponent but he didn't just make up a lie to get out of anything. He really didn't look like it anyway.

 

Gray was a professional at the time of posting, Mason a schoolboy.

 

Oh please

What was the nature of this homophobic monstrosity btw?

 

I don't think the FA take things like that into consideration PJ.

Edit: by that I mean youth players get done for racism(Spartak Moscow)

 

Even though he’d have been under that age of consent? Really?

****ing embarrassing that kopites felt the need to do a forensic dive on his social media accounts, makes you wonder what their motives were? It wouldn’t be demonising the alleged victim would it?

 

Or Evertonians hanging Firmino before his guilt has been proven.

I and others have said on the thread that if Firmino did racially abuse the lad he deserves his punishment, the rest(including the Everton view)is just bias.
But we are entitled to the view Holgate's might have been mistaken, made the accusation to dodge a red card etc, and until the panel release their findings are entitled to.

 

has peter Herbert shared his wisdom yet? Here's the question, in any attempt at being even-handed, why has Ousely not urged Holgate to confess if he has made it up? And Suarez DID confess to calling/referring to Evra's skin colour (and should always have received some ban, regardless of whether he thought it was acceptable or not). What he denied is that he stood there and repeated that a further five/ten/seven times, depending on which version -and which insuklt- Evra eventually settled upon AFTER reviewing the available evidence with the FA.

We knew this would happen: the race-relations industry is involved now and the express train has left the station, first stop Head-On-A-Stick-Ville, and dare anyone pull the communications cord they'll be charged with 'victim-blaming', as Tobes recently put it.

 

Hahahahaha!!!!. No.

 

Personally I think the most logically outcome was that he mishead him to be honest. However, I think it’s pretty ****ing low to be trawling his social media accounts, in the hope of turning up something.

Quite what Masons supposed homophobic comments - when he was 15 - have got to do with Firminos alleged comments in 2018 is anyone’s ****ing guess

 

the subsequent events, if the investigation into Bobby comes up clear, would support that. It's either one or the other. Do you think, if he's made it up, he should be asked to confess? Should be asked to confess anyway if Bobby is also being asked to? Do you not think this has shades of the teacher saying 'I'm going to turn my back now, and I expect the boy who put a tack under my seat to stand up and remove it, Bobby'?

 

100% agree with the second part of that post.

 

So you don't think the first thing the media would have done is trawl Bobby's social media accounts and history of any racism, or can Bobby never be an 'alleged victim' in this scenario?