Off Topic Political Debate

Toby Young has shown the way for once - in spite of May saying she wouldn't sack him, he has resigned.

The Tories should follow his lead.

 

Sometimes reality is boring. The public choose to stick with what they know politically, they do not want airy fairy Lib Dem ideas or the Labour Party taking us back to the period of union dominating industrial strife.

 

You have put your finger on the point that there is no vision for the future. While you see David Davis getting frantic about companies leaving for Europe, you have to ask why his plan, vision, call it what you will, is so woolly that no one has a clue what to do. Farage had a meeting in Brussels last week and was amazed to find that nothing has been discussed about border control. Seeing that taking control of them was so important you might have thought they would be mentioned.

 

Agreed..

That is why a more pragmatic approach is needed dealing with the social issues of our time that the present govt is failing in:
Health
Housing
Social Care
Community

 

Disagree, there is plenty of vision for the future amongst the Brexit parts of the cabinet, however it should be strengthened by the additions of Raab and Rees Mogg.
The predicted exodus of companies leaving the Uk has failed to materialise. The times are certainly uncertain due to the EU's stance on creating problems rather than solving them.

Farage was amazed by the ignorance of Barnier concerning the 'free movement' issue for the UK public. If he lacks the ability to understand basics I doubt a deal can be struck at all.

 

It is difficult to expect anyone here to take British concerns about freedom of movement seriously. The reason being that you cannot back up your concerns with reliable figures - most EU. nations have far higher rates of immigration from other EU. states than the UK. does. The British (in the absence of tangible figures) think that the number is much higher than it really is - partly because of propaganda and partly because it is difficult to differentiate the tourist from the immigrant when seen on the street - and there are 20 of the former to every one of the latter. As long as Germany has over 3 million Poles and Italy has over a million Rumanians you cannot expect them to take your concerns seriously.

 

The MPs you mentioned have not been invited to join the cabinet. Davis is seeing that companies will leave unless the promise that nothing will change is kept, and is now in a panic. Farage was asking why the UK government had not raised the border issue. He can smell a leave in name only rat.

 

The UK public had concerns about unrestricted access to the UK, they voted leave primarily to correct this problem. I'm not sure they feel the need to convince anybody, they have already made their decision.

 

As you say - they have already made their decision, but do not expect a sympathetic ear on this side of the Channel. Ostensibly the reasons were immigration and sovereignty. With regard to the first European immigration to the UK. is not high enough to warrant making special conditions for Britain, and with regard to the second there is no other country in the EU. which has been given more allowances to go it's own way than Britain has. It is raking over old ground to repeat again that Britain voted for 95% of all EU. laws, and that this is a higher percentage than for any other country. If you want to go then just do it but don't expect either sympathy or the continued flow of trade as if nothing had happened. Go try to protect your newly won 'sovereignty' with the likes of Trump or the Chinese, and see how much is left afterwards. You are trading a pooled sovereignty of equals for a situation where you have to open up your legs like a cheap hooker for the rest of the World to flood in.

 

What proof do you have that immigration was the main reason for people voting to leave? I thought it was the money? Or Sovereignty? Or free trade deals? Or to kickstart our Unicorn breeding program?

 

try these

Brexit: People voted to leave EU because they feared immigration ...

Brexit: Immigration WAS the issue for Brexit voters in EU referendum ...

 

The UK is not after sympathy but sensible agreements that protect trade in the UK and in the rest of the EU. The EU is so desperate to protect its vulnerable project that it seems it is prepared to damage parts of its own territory to produce a less than good Brexit for the UK.

 

That's not proof, that's a ridiculous survey.

My point was that most Leavers had different reasons to want leave the EU, the NHS bus lies, immigration, 'sovereignty', etc...

Remainers were educated enough to look at the numbers, and not get upset by 'experts'.

 

Nobody is denying there were different reasons why the UK public decided our future lay outside of the EU.

The MAIN reasons were controlling free movement and sovereignty.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that such an analysis can be conducted by how many people tweeted ? People who 'tweet' about such things are not representative of the overall picture. There were a hundred different reasons for people voting the way they did. The 'left wing' Brexit case is also overlooked - could a future Labour government renationalize the railways, post and energy concerns within the context of EU. laws ? I very much doubt it. The same thing applies to SNP. supporters - were they really so anti Brexit ? The experience in Catalonia has proved that Scotland could never break away effectively whilst within the EU. So which way did SNP supporters vote ? The truth is we don't know why people voted - but we do know that the information flow during the build up to the referendum degenerated to the level of naked comic propaganda.

 

So it's 2 main reasons now?

 

What you mean is that those where the reasons given by your mates down the pub - and so you presume that what is valid for you and them must be so for the rest of the country.

 

Don't think he'd waste so much time on here if he actually had any...

 

Agreed, the project fear propaganda before the referendum has proved to be complete and utter nonsense.

 

says the resident loser.