Holgate and Firmino incident !

No, there's none whatsoever, and thus every time he's about to be punished he can pull that card from up his sleeve again.

 

It's all too mamby pamby these days makes me sick...

Holgate should have had at least a yellow for the push the daft prick and to be fair I'd go bonkers an all if someone pushed me over hoardings into the crowd?

Holgate shouldn't expect Firmino to not go daft....Not condoning racism but there's too much cry arsing about it these days plus it's always the darkies playing on it if I get called a white c u n t that's not racism it's no problem if you call a coloured person a black **** you're racist it's all one way and media driven...

 

Yup and money goes direct to grass roots projects or a charity

 

I'm condemning racism - no matter what Holgate did (and got away with) is no excuse for racism. That's not the point though - the point is, did the racism happen in the first place? If not, let's not pretend that Holgate didn't know exactly what he was doing: if it did, Bobby is toast, in my book.

 

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/he-called-n-evertons-mason-11809267

Hmm. Nonetheless, Bobby still has to prove his innocence rather than the MUFA having to prove his guilt. I bet you they'll still charge him under E3(1) for using foul and abusive language, even though they swept that under the carpet when Evra did it to Suarez. They'll have to get him on something.

 

Well 2 things if that is accurate about what Holgate claims.

1) the N word in English? How on earth did at least the ref and Lala not hear that?

2) even if somehow they didn't the refs mic has to pick that up and there won't be any translation or interpretation issues about it.

As I said. Should be a 2 minute investigation.

 

What Bobby has said, if this lip reader is right, just can not be 'misunderstood' to be the word '******'. Absolutely not. I did read in one of the reports though that the ref's mike, whilst open to the other three officials, is NOT recorded. That's a shame, as, I've constantly re-iterated, Bobby is in the position of proving his innocence, and with the likes of Herbert, Oliver Holt and Martin Samuel about, Holgate will be backed to the hilt unless he makes a taped confession to the Archbishop of Canterbury that he absolutely made the whole thing up on the spur of the moment when he realised that the ref had calmed Bobby down and was about to turn around and send him off.

 

Well the FA will have issues proving it then. You can clearly see the ref tell Holgate he didn't hear it when he talks to him alone despite being literally between the two players. Which since he didn't red card firmino immediately, you'd think confirms he didn't hear it.

So no recording and so far no video evidence for lip reading that particular split second.

A convo between officials with no red card after so obviously the other 3 officials didn't hear it either over the coms.

So what's left? 4 players including the accused and accuser either confirming it, denying it or saying they didn't hear.

If it comes out evens good luck FA.

A lack of proof vindicating will of course mean Firminos name will not be cleared even if he's innocent as it allows the "I heard" to be maintained. And vice versa for Holgate if firmino did say something racist.

Utter disgrace after so many incidents that the officials mic pick ups are not recorded and it'll come down to a he said, he said yet again, written statements after the fact, interpretation about "who's more believable " by the panel...

Just bizarre.

 

The utter disgrace, and the precedent was set in the Suarez case, is that you have to prove your innocence against one ****ing serious accusation. It's not not legal justice, let alone natural justice. Despicable.

 

I just don't understand the mic pick ups not being recorded. Even if (not in this case) the incident isnt in the immediate vicinity of the officials mics they will still record the conversations in the immediate aftermath....the initial stories being told so to speak. This would make it harder for those stories to be changed later or would pick up inconsistencies through repetition.

It Would protect the officials too. So e.g. let's say firmino did say something racist but if the mic doesn't pick it up it at least it supports a ref saying I didn't hear anything etc.

Of course it depends on mic settings as well but still.. better than nothing.

 

that's implausible. anyone who has seen our 2 and now one Brazilian knows thry have not bothered learn the language well.

then you add in he was angry to was ranting in his native language... a switch to English for 1 second as he is pulled away.. nahhhh...

we are all assuming a recording exists. imo it probably doesn't or captured nothing by madleys heavy breathing

 

Yup...see posts after from DD on

 

it's very simple.... there's nothing there amyone can find other than puta... holgate seems to have a delayed reaction and we have a second where lallana is.pulling him away that one or two.more words mifht have been said.

only.two possibilities exist.

1. firmino said.something more.. 2 words in Portuguese as.a strong assumption.

2. holgate decided that the Portuguese he heard meant a racist term and he himself decided to say the n word out if it.


for me........ the fa need to get on with it. i dont want to be saying a young lad deliberately made it up to get another player in trouble. my personal.view is the lad is thick and didn't know what was said

 

Sorry? Are you suggesting for one minute that he’d ‘pull this card out of his sleeve’ in some premeditated act of cowardice? i.e. trying to get another competitor done for a gross miscarriage of justice?

What the actual ****?

 

He tried to get a competitor injured with a cowardly push in the back.

 

Which is relevant to a cry of a deliberate act of racism.

Twat

 

. You are wrong. There would be a problem and it will and should be pulled up as racism. This is exactly what Trevor Sinclair said and got fined for racist abuse on a white cop.

But more seriously pushing someone on the touch line whilst going for the ball or over the ball dangerous tackling deserve yellow or even red cards but giving someone a verbal racist abuse is beyond acceptable. The FA may feel they want to take severe action otherwise they may be seen to tolerate racist retaliation each time a black player commits a foul. Why racist abuse? What has Holgate's colour got to do with it?

Klopp has learnt from Dalglish's mistake in not jumping in in either minimising the incident or defending Firmino in advance. Or going for T shirts. Let the FA pronounce and then comment.

 

We don't know what was said or not said yet.

We have all agreed if guilty bobby should be punished, but if it's a false allegation what should Holgate punishment be?

If it's a simple misunderstanding as originally claimed, this is an unnecessary mess fueled by the media. Shouldn't they be held accountable as well.

 

Nothing has been proved. "Accused is innocent until it's proven otherwise" People are just making up their stories.

 

Looking back at the incident again, I feel firmino really let himself, his teamates and the fans down!

Why didnt the soft beggar just lie still amongst the fans and wait for the physio to give the ref no option but to send holgate off.