Recent improvement in attitude

[Lovelocum]

Not untouchable. But he carries the vision and ambition of Nicola Cortese and Markus Liebherr. On the whole he has done a remarkable job, with only one major error. The failure to replace Pelle. The rest of the apparent slide, from sacking Puel to our inconsistency, stems from this one failure. One could possibly say that the club had too close an ear to the fans' concerns by sacking Puel. Personally, I don't think the club were overly concerned by the style. Puel obtained results on several fronts. And now he's proving his own point. But sacking Les.? Not even close.

I don’t believe the fans views were a factor in sacking puel. Pulis and BFS wouldn’t be quite so successful if boards took that much notice of the fans.
Failure in Europe, poor run in and (possibly) loss of the dressing room would be their main concerns.

 

[TheSecondStain]

I don’t believe the fans views were a factor in sacking puel. Pulis and BFS wouldn’t be quite so successful if boards took that much notice of the fans.
Failure in Europe, poor run in and (possibly) loss of the dressing room would be their main concerns.

Excuse me, but he had a relatively successful season.

 

[Lovelocum]

Excuse me, but he had a relatively successful season.

I didn’t say he was not successful. 8th place and LC final was pretty good. But he failed to get out a group we should have won and the last 1/4 season was dire. I don’t think people can dispute that?

 

[Lovelocum]

[QUOTE="If you don’t have that you develop, retrain or change the personnel. Maybe MP2 should have the chance to change the personnel to fit his way, so he can at least be judged fairly.

Put it this way then, would you support selling VVD and Bertrand and any other bad eggs to steady the ship and start a foundation to build on?

I'm certainly convinced that we are underperforming just as we did last year. I'm not convinced that MP2 is the best manager we've ever had - to put it mildly. I'm totally convinvced VVD and Bertrand are two of the best players we've ever had. However, when they turn it on for Man City, UTD and Arsenal in front of Guardiola and Mourinho but dont get out of first gear against Leicester it makes me wonder whether they're playing for the club or themselves and whether MP2 and Puel have been having fruitless struggle to get players commited to the campaign.[/QUOTE]
Right now I would say get rid of ANY players who want out or considered ‘bad eggs’. Last year I was all for forcing VVD to stay, make a stand etc. But now I wonder if this is part of the problem.

Look at Burnley, do they have a VVD or Bertrand? We used to be a team greater than the sum of its parts, now we are an average squad with a few class players.

 

[Velcro Roy]

Put it this way then, would you support selling VVD and Bertrand and any other bad eggs to steady the ship and start a foundation to build on?

I'm certainly convinced that we are underperforming just as we did last year. I'm not convinced that MP2 is the best manager we've ever had - to put it mildly. I'm totally convinvced VVD and Bertrand are two of the best players we've ever had. However, when they turn it on for Man City, UTD and Arsenal in front of Guardiola and Mourinho but dont get out of first gear against Leicester it makes me wonder whether they're playing for the club or themselves and whether MP2 and Puel have been having fruitless struggle to get players commited to the campaign.

Right now I would say get rid of ANY players who want out or considered ‘bad eggs’. Last year I was all for forcing VVD to stay, make a stand etc. But now I wonder if this is part of the problem.

Look at Burnley, do they have a VVD or Bertrand? We used to be a team greater than the sum of its parts, now we are an average squad with a few class players.[/QUOTE]

I feel this is a bit harsh on Bertie,sure he's had a couple of poorer games but so have many others.just because some people who claim to be "in the know" (frankly with very little or no back up) say something about individuals doesn't mean it's fact.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

So we are suffering from letting our best players go, but the situation can be improved by....letting our best players go. The answer surely is to get the best out of those players and convince them to play their best every game.

 

[SaintinNZ]

So we are suffering from letting our best players go, but the situation can be improved by....letting our best players go. The answer surely is to get the best out of those players and convince them to play their best every game.

Yes, it's quite a quandary.

What does backing the manager mean I wonder? Rather than sell The bad eggs I would prefer to see them banished from the squad and taken down ruthlessly. Training alone in the mid season is not where anyone wants to be. We have not had a manager in control since Koeman left IMO yet he was criticised for his control of the squad here and at Everton.

On the other hand if I were MP2 I might think I could do a heck of a lot of rebuilding with 100m pound from VVD Bertrand and tadic. It would be a squad of my own and I could expect some loyalty. Yet Saints don't work that way, perhaps that is a failing.

 

[SaintinNZ]

Right now I would say get rid of ANY players who want out or considered ‘bad eggs’. Last year I was all for forcing VVD to stay, make a stand etc. But now I wonder if this is part of the problem.

Look at Burnley, do they have a VVD or Bertrand? We used to be a team greater than the sum of its parts, now we are an average squad with a few class players.

I feel this is a bit harsh on Bertie,sure he's had a couple of poorer games but so have many others.just because some people who claim to be "in the know" (frankly with very little or no back up) say something about individuals doesn't mean it's fact.[/QUOTE]

I want to believe in Bertrand. I've loved his play over the years and he has been critical in our mini revival. He was also one of our better players against Leicester. At least he tried.

 

[fatletiss]

I don’t believe the fans views were a factor in sacking puel. Pulis and BFS wouldn’t be quite so successful if boards took that much notice of the fans.
Failure in Europe, poor run in and (possibly) loss of the dressing room would be their main concerns.

I think it was a factor at Saints.

How long has BFS stayed at his clubs, bar Bolton?

 

[fatletiss]

I didn’t say he was not successful. 8th place and LC final was pretty good. But he failed to get out a group we should have won and the last 1/4 season was dire. I don’t think people can dispute that?

Agree on the last 1/4 of a season. Don’t agree on the Europa comments and haven’t with any sayingbwe were bad in Europe because it was our first season at that level for years. It wasn’t great. But it wasn’t shocking. It was progress from the year before.

The last 1/4 was poor offensively but in my buew that was because he players, fans and club all had made up their mind Puel was going.

Would we long right now for another shocking 1/4 and all those clean sheets? Despite the attitude of fans and players. Puel still had us competitive, albeit not very pretty. Defensively we never crumbled. Could do with that now.

 

[fatletiss]

So we are suffering from letting our best players go, but the situation can be improved by....letting our best players go. The answer surely is to get the best out of those players and convince them to play their best every game.

I like this Fran, but because it emphasises the issue for the Board.

Sell players - get slagged off
Take a stand, players sulk/cause dressing room problems, then the boat rocks - get slagged off

Fans won’t be happy unless we are winning more games that me lose and the league position looks good (challenging for something) ..

There are a lot of fans that speak of “entertainment” but i have always felt that was a veil - no fans moan when you’re winning.

 

[fatletiss]

Anyone heard from Ian Thumwood?

Unsurprisingly quiet.

 

[Puck]

I like this Fran, but because it emphasises the issue for the Board.

Sell players - get slagged off
Take a stand, players sulk/cause dressing room problems, then the boat rocks - get slagged off

Fans won’t be happy unless we are winning more games that me lose and the league position looks good (challenging for something) ..

There are a lot of fans that speak of “entertainment” but i have always felt that was a veil - nomfans moan when you’re winning.

Also worth remembering that “fans” aren’t one big group. I doubt many of the people who complained about selling players are the same people complaining about keeping players. There are different views that’s all. You can’t please all of the people all of the time. That’s life.

Very much agree with the point in your other post about defensive solidity. We’re not much better going forward than we were last year but we’re definitely worse at the back.

 

[Saintmagic]

For me the last 1/4 of the season (basically after we lost in the League Cup final) was a classic case of season being over and nobody giving a **** anymore. Happens to a handful of teams every year where they basically go into holiday mode as soon as they are safe, or in our case after the League cup final. Lots of managers find it hard to motivate players when there is effectively nothing to play for.

 

[Velcro Roy]

I

There are a LOT of fans that speak of “entertainment” but i have always felt that was a veil - nomfans moan when you’re winning.

Yep and I'm one of em,think the answer to that smoke screen is there are a LOT of us.
If we always played boring football just to try and sneak a 1-0 win then I would finally see sense and Quit.
The last part of last season pushed me hard,this season is difficult to fathom.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

I could live with boring 1-0 wins till the end of the season. In fact, I'll mail the club and tell them.

 

[Saint Sosa]

Right now I would say get rid of ANY players who want out or considered ‘bad eggs’. Last year I was all for forcing VVD to stay, make a stand etc. But now I wonder if this is part of the problem.

Look at Burnley, do they have a VVD or Bertrand? We used to be a team greater than the sum of its parts, now we are an average squad with a few class players.

I feel this is a bit harsh on Bertie,sure he's had a couple of poorer games but so have many others.just because some people who claim to be "in the know" (frankly with very little or no back up) say something about individuals doesn't mean it's fact.

I can tell you with 99% certainty that Bertrand hated playing under Puel. He has been one of our best performers this season, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up at City in January.

I like this Fran, but because it emphasises the issue for the Board.

Sell players - get slagged off
Take a stand, players sulk/cause dressing room problems, then the boat rocks - get slagged off

Fans won’t be happy unless we are winning more games that me lose and the league position looks good (challenging for something) ..

There are a lot of fans that speak of “entertainment” but i have always felt that was a veil - nomfans moan when you’re winning.

I mean if the board were open (like they always promised to be) about selling players then the complaints would be minimal. The 'meltdowns' came from the board categorically stating that no one was leaving, to then sell 5 first team players in one window. Then denial the next summer and selling again. If they came out this summer and said "VVD is unhappy at the club and we have received bids from XYZ, we feel as if it's the best interest of the club to accept bid X and reinvest this money in to the playing squad" then you'd be hard pressed to hear any widespread complaints, towards the club at least.

Our board needs a shakeup, we've not operated well for the last few years - despite the good signing here and there. I think some people are far too comfortable in their roles.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

I think the board made the stand on VVD mainly to set an example to others....signing a contract does not mean you can get a move any time you like. I have heard fans say that will put off players from signing for us....not buying that...players will always sign for an EPL club....after all they don't know if they are going to be a wild success or not. We are no longer pushovers. May not be the most pragmatic decision, but sometimes principles do matter.

 

[fatletiss]

Yep and I'm one of em,think the answer to that smoke screen is there are a LOT of us.
If we always played boring football just to try and sneak a 1-0 win then I would finally see sense and Quit.
The last part of last season pushed me hard,this season is difficult to fathom.

I bet you wouldn’t quit if we were top 4 and winning 1-0

 

[fatletiss]

I can tell you with 99% certainty that Bertrand hated playing under Puel. He has been one of our best performers this season, but I'd be surprised if he doesn't end up at City in January.



I mean if the board were open (like they always promised to be) about selling players then the complaints would be minimal. The 'meltdowns' came from the board categorically stating that no one was leaving, to then sell 5 first team players in one window. Then denial the next summer and selling again. If they came out this summer and said "VVD is unhappy at the club and we have received bids from XYZ, we feel as if it's the best interest of the club to accept bid X and reinvest this money in to the playing squad" then you'd be hard pressed to hear any widespread complaints, towards the club at least.

Our board needs a shakeup, we've not operated well for the last few years - despite the good signing here and there. I think some people are far too comfortable in their roles.

You still moaning about stuff from 4 seasons back? Blimey, people say I go on

And ps. Do you really expect any board to come out and say what you suggested about VVD? Completely Undermines their position and in fact, they did come out and make a statement - they said he wasn’t going anywhere in the summer. He didn’t, yet still they get stick.

They ain’t perfect, but they are alright for me.