The clue is in my username. I'm 36, United mad since I remember (around 1987/88), father's side of the family from Bury, Greater Manchester. I didn't say it's all about the Champions League. I prioritise the Premier League.
Ok fair enough, you have a different point of view to some on here but it's valid. As much as I would like to see Utd fail it is horrible seeing that twat in charge at least rivals had a begrudging respect for Fergie.
Sorry mate if you are not an RS wum using a second username! I've been watching United since the glory days of best and Charlton, been through the relegation (unbelievable isn't it?) and coming back up with hill and Coppell destroying the opposition on the wings. And the uncertain times of sexton and Atkinson were not dissimilar to moyes and van gaal: a few cups but no titles. You've known nothing but success under ferguson. I said it will take ages and loads of money >£300m, soon after moyes started, to turn things round. The job was far too big for Moyes and Van Gaal's football was clearly so bad that he had to go: playing soporific possession football at hone with hardly any excitement.And missing cl football too. Mourinho is far from perfect but his football as poor as it may seem to you is much better than lvg's and Moyes's. If only he would take more risks... but only the bitterest ABU would say that city or the RS had a more successful season than united last year. Just because they finished above United in the league. All three went into the cl, the RS had to qualify But United won 2 trophies by winning 2 finals. Sure no United fan wanted to be in the Europa but once in it united competed and won it. JM surely deserved some credit. Your demeaning a competition which was won fair and square makes you an odd United fan indeed. As I say you sounded more like one of those RS deludeds who wum here when united have a bad result. But hey if you are not then my mistake!
I'm pretty sure my father, uncles and grandad would have disowned me had I declared allegiance to Birmingham or Villa over United.
Who was more successful in 2000/01, Liverpool with their fake 'treble' or United with the Premier League?
That is not even a valid comparison. A premiership title of course. So the valid question should have been: who had been more successful: Chelsea in winning the title or united winning 2 cups and getting into the CL? I would say and have said without hesitation- Chelsea. You just cannot compare coming third or fourth to winning 2 cups AND getting into the CL. Every fan even those rabid RS fans agreed that United had been more successful than them last season. What is fourth, except a chance to go into the qualifying rounds of the CL?
United of course, a title win trumps all. But do you think Arsenal were more successful than Liverpool in that season by finishing second when Liverpool came third? Who was more successful in 2005? Liverpool with the CL or Everton finishing above them in the league with no trophies? How about 2013, Chelsea winning the Europa in third or City finishing second with nowt? Like I said above, unless you are winning the title or genuinely challenging for it, trophies are worth more than league positions.
Exactly. Relegation is temporary, Norwich will always have the 1985 LC in their trophy cabinet. How many Wigan fans do you think would give up the FA Cup in exchange for finishing 17th in 2013? Oh I tried that. @Hoddle Is A God got quite upset and accused me of dissing Poch when I noted he hadn't won any trophies despite having the best Spurs team for 50 odd years...
So we agree there's more to success than straightforward trophy count and that different competitions carry different weight. What is City finishing 3rd last season and above us every year since Fergie retired? It's closer to the Premier League title (which is the number one priority) than United and the springboard to their dominance right now. Had we won the Champions League or even FA Cup last season it would possibly be another matter. I guess I just don't rate the Europa or League Cup very highly. Like many United fans I spent years laughing at Liverpool's Thursday night football and Chelsea for being League Cup specialists. I'm just being consistent now. What formula are you using to determine that? If we look at it in monetary terms, the combined prize money for our Europa and League Cup final wins is almost identical to the difference in Premier League prize money handed out between 3rd and 6th places. When it comes down to it, isn't it personal to everyone which competitions carry more weight?
Yes but poch has won the best net spend trophy, the 'we finally finished above arsenal trophy', and the most points over two seasons trophy, much better than real trophies apparently.
Oh come on mate. You know very well that no one argued on the basis of number of cups. There is and has always been a hierarchy of trophies. The title is the goal every season, followed very closely by the CL. You are fighting a losing battle here. Your stand point does not make sense even for a fan spoilt by Ferguson success. The FA Cup better than the Europa? We did win it under LVG. So you would call that a successful season? No you are not being consistent. Just weird for a United fan to wum its own board. May be the mods could check your IP address. Just a suggestion. I wonder whether one of the banned RS could be behind this. But if I am wrong I am sorry
We have a lot of agreement there is a hierarchy of trophies headed by the Premier League and Champions League. It looks like we just put different value on league position and the other trophies, and there's nothing wrong with that. I don't see how it's a wum that I wanted United to finish higher in the league, above City and Liverpool, last season and would trade a couple of cups I don't personally rate for that. I respect that you see it differently.
I think you're alone in that opinion to be honest. If you look at any club's honours page on their website or wherever, finishing second, third or fourth will not appear on it. The UEFA cup and league cup will. Even in three years time no one will remember that City finished above us in 2016-17. No one, not even City fans, will give a ****. What will be remembered is we won two tournaments. I think you have a weird slant on things to be perfectly frank, one that 99.999% of United fans will not share, but I can see it's not someone on the wind up. Or at least I think so.
Fair enough, it might be a minority opinion but I'm sure I'm not alone. Perhaps I have a better memory than I should for league positions and what we at United used to value.
I've been going United for forty years. We used to value the cup competitions, always have. I don't really fondly recall coming second to Liverpool, I remember beating the ****s in the FA cup final.
No formula, just my opinion. I agree that some competitions carry more weight than others, but in my opinion, no matter how prestigious the competition, winning something is better than not coming close to winning something. If you were talking about getting to the CL final, or still being in with a shout of the title in May, then I'd agree that's almost worth more than winning the EL and definitely worth more than the LC. But finishing 3rd rather than 6th means nothing to me outside CL qualification. Don't give two ****s about the prize money, it's all about the prizes. You see that's what I'd laugh at Liverpool and City fans for. Caring all that much about one or two places in the league. Like in 2002 and 2014 when Liverpool fans were giving it large about finished ahead of Utd and how the "power had shifted back". Which turned out to be utter delusion as they fell back down the league with nothing to show for their troubles. No difference this year. No trophies, no real hope of any, not built on 4th spot at all. Last year's table will be nothing more than a footnote for everyone but Chelsea. Whereas people will remember last year's Europa League winners and, to a lesser extent I admit, last year's league cup winners. I reckon I could name every trophy Utd have won since I started supporting, barring the one offs like the CS. Whereas other than seasons where we finished first or second, I'd struggle to recall every league position. Everyone remembers the 1990 FA Cup and 1991 CWC, but what was the league position and where did City finish relative to us? Could hazard a guess but (upon Googling) turns out my guess for 1990 was way off. Never really laughed at Liverpool or Chelsea for being in the EL tbh. Only found it funny when Liverpool were bottling it against the likes of Zenit and Braga (Braga ffs ). Ultimately it was their performance in the EL which was worthy of derision, not the fact they were in the comp. When Chelsea won it they deserved respect imo, particularly given how **** their season started out.
