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Match Day Thread Toon v Leicester

Discussion in 'Newcastle United' started by Albert's Chip Shop, Dec 8, 2017.

  1. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    I could live with Gayle up front since he seems to be looking a bit sharper but otherwise it's hard to argue with that selection.
     
    #221
  2. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    Same here as Gayle has looked lively and dangerous. Strikers in form and all that.

    I was solely going with Mitrovic for ball retention as I'm worried by how much impetus we are giving opposition at present by keep giving them the ball. I recognise Rafa's tactic this season has always been counter attack. Rightly so as we are playing better sides than ourselves. But we did at least keep the ball decent when we had it. At present its constant turnover and the opponent always feel they can get back in at any moment.
     
    #222
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  3. JakartaToon

    JakartaToon Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Didn't watch the game but agree. Won't get anywhere if we can't retain the ball. Just ends up as a game of attack and defence which with our defenders is never going to end well. We still gave it away a lot in midfield, particularly when Hayden and Diame were playing, but at least Merino and Shelvey retain it better. It is important that you have a front man it will stick with and would also go with Mitrovic now for that reason. Certainly don't think Dummett would help as his distribution is woeful. If you can retain the ball a bit better suddenly your defensive failings start to look less obvious.
    I do remember people on here saying our main failing earlier in the season was we didn't get the ball forward quick enough which was causing us problems in creating chances against sides setting up to defend. Maybe we need to go back to that slower build up with a focus on ball retention.
     
    #223
  4. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    The difference is we are now conceding more goals and that seems to be because we commit to playing higher up the pitch and get hit on the counter attack (with considerable ease) when we lose the ball. You see some of these goals we have conceded and the players are all over the place; we need to keep our shape better and that probably will involve a slower build up in our own play.
     
    #224
  5. Lord Jonjomort

    Lord Jonjomort Well-Known Member

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    I wonder about that third goal as the most recent example; Perez is trotting back and takes an age to spot that Okazaki is in the box, alone. Clark was really dumb, completely unaware, but why oh why was Perez the next player back?

    I think a lot could be solved by playing a dedicated DM. I don't like Rafa's version of 4-2-3-1 as frequently the two deep lying CM's are undisciplined. Particularly when you play very attack minded full backs you have to have a midfielder capable of covering properly - like Matic, DIer, etc. For me, Hayden should be that player but for whatever reason isn't. I'm not suggesting he'd be a worldy of a DM, but at Arsenal youth he was CB and DM, why isn't he being encouraged to stay back? He was the furthest forward for our first goal vs Leicester, which just seems daft. IF he stays back, we go three at the back and the fullbacks support the wings. What's happening is we have two young, attacking full backs who both advance at the same time, then Hayden wanders upfield so we're completely exposed to the counter and it's very easy to beat us.

    Seems pretty obvious to me, I'm sure Rafa knows, maybe the players just don't understand??
     
    #225
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  6. Warmir Pouchov

    Warmir Pouchov Better than JPF

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    I''ll defend Rafa a bit here. I don't think Hayden has that discipline or sensing of danger in him. He just doesn't seem to have the positional sense. There is an art to good defensive midfield play. You have to worry less about picking someone up and understand its more about picking up positions in certain areas of the field depending where the ball is. Its also about having a natural instinct of when to close the ball and sniffing out problems. If you watch Kante he is incredibly clever at spotting a break and closing down in lightning speed. He kills and allows them to reset. Idrissa Gueye does it too. He was excellent in the derby yesterday. He basically forced Liverpool to attack wide almost single handedly. They knew it was more manageable and keeping Salah away from the box was crucial. Salah proved them correct with his finish - but good players will do that.

    So in Rafa's defence I don't think we have one. Shelvey actually has more positional discipline than Hayden. He just drifts and then only looks to pick up the individual. Its completely ineffective. Perhaps there is an element of coaching but I would think Rafa is trying. However its like when Pardew used to get **** for playing long ball. You could see him screaming for Krul to play out, but Krul had it ingrained into him to play long and just didn't have the confidence in his footballing skills to do it. As a coach I think it takes time and I also think some just are not possible to change.
     
    #226
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  7. Seabass

    Seabass Well-Known Member

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    THIS! Also I personally think that if he is fit Shelvey has to start end of. He is our best chance of creating a scoring opportunity.
     
    #227
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  8. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    Agree, none of our players are really suited to or are good enough to play DCM. The 2 key positions to sort out last summer were DCM and no 10 and we didn't do that so we are now paying the price.
     
    #228
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  9. General Lee Speaking

    General Lee Speaking Well-Known Member

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    Correct. We were still trying 'Hollywood' long balls in the last game but they were coming from the CBs rather than Shelvey who really can pick a pass and has the best quality of touch in the squad.
     
    #229

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