I don't think the army as an institution is being bashed here tbh For me its like the old adage "one mans freedom fighter is another mans terrorist" The army was a tool for freedom but corrupt politicians and false wars have made it more terrorist than freedom fighters in the eyes of the world As a kid I remember soldiers being around and communities would show them respect, I haven't seen that happen for a long time
I think you're getting it wrong here. Your average squaddie is a good decent, brave person. They're following orders. Like has been said, it's the suits that are the problem, not the soldiers. Where do you think we'd be now without our armed forces in the 1940's?
I understand Boot Camp works wonders for fat kids but I can't see no other benefit in the army. You can pick up skills too no doubt...bit ultimately haven't you just signed up to be a soldier when called upon? The bloke fixing the tanks so that some meat head can blow up a village is just as bad as the bloke controlling the tank...all piss in the same pot. As was said earlier...defending our land when invaded is a grand thing to do...but going to someone elses country for monatery gains for the white collars? **** them...let me see them send their kids to the front line. You get soldiers who suffer all-sorts of mental and physical trauma...but are left to deal with it...have a **** quality of life...which white collar gives a ****? They don't care, your kid just earned them a multi million pound contract for re building the damn place they destroyed in the first place.
It's a complicated issue, we need people who are willing to fight for their country if called upon, we need the powers that be too respect that the decisions they make risk the lives of those people. People who sign up will always have my respect and I won't ever question their politics. Let a man go find himself and hopefully come home safe a better person.
Why become the squaddie who has to do the dirty work? You have to take the blame too..there is blood on the Squaddies hand too. The World War was a global threat...bombs getting dropped over our country....I think it was a different ball game to feeding a handful of people's greed.
and what if in this process this individual killed another innocent due to following orders? Is he forgiven for being a brave soldier who had the balls to sign up? Just because the bloodshed is not on our door steps does not mean an innocent life did not get taken. My son is worth more than a whole country to me...**** the bigger picture..I'd rather a million soldiers die than my boy and I'm sure the mother in Iraq who lost her innocent child feels the same....she just can't do **** all about it.
Okay so should we not be prepared for that happening again, or do we just randomly call up people with no training if a war kicks off?
My friend was in the first Gulf war in the tank regiment. He now has full blown PTSD from his experiences in that war. He was a gunner in the tank and followed his orders to shell Iraqi positions. He told me about what he saw after his tank advanced into enemy lines, the bits of bodies strewn around the desert. Young men blown to pieces whilst trying to retreat. He also lost two of his best mates to 'friendly fire' and came back a broken man. Plenty of times I've had to go round to his house at 3am to stop him from hanging himself after he's been on a drinking binge. The Army did **** all for him when he left, they discharged him into the care of his GP, well meaning, but ultimately fruitless in trying to support his needs. Eventually my mate turned his life around when we were in California together years ago and we met up with a charity who support veterans through surfing, my mate set something similar up here called Surf action, who to this day still support Vets to get them in the Ocean and to link them in with support for PTSD. The services are better today, but there's still a long way to go. Ultimately the best thing to do is not send young men into war.
I agree people should be trained up...I'd train up so I can protect my family and our country...but so many wars are wrong and we only enter them when there is a material gain for us....never for the good of humanity. That's too much of a risk to take for me.
Like I said it's complicated and a person has to go into it of his own choice with eyes open. There's a million what ifs. I steered my oldest away from it for the same reasons you state. Those who go have my respect. Your first sentence is difficult and I would hope that doesn't happen to anyone I would rather we have no reason for an army at all but that isn't the case.
Mate I worked in community safety and the amounts of homeless, drug/alcohol addicted, criminal ex soldiers you see you wouldn't believe I don't want to start a riot but the h4h and poppy debates annoy the **** out of me since I worked in this field CEO of British legion is on about £150k from the money raised but if a dilduer and his family earn £10,001 its over the £10k threshold so entitled to **** all (figs may be different now) That's before you consider why a soldier maimed defending his country needs a charity to help him rather than the country he went to war for Not trying to offend anyone here just feel strongly about it.
I agree it's not an easy one and I'm also sure no one here condones the killing of innocents. I hate these topics at times.
I'm agreeing with loads of what you say. I know wars are wrong, I just can't portion any blame on a soldier following orders. A rogue soldier, now that's a different matter.
My best mate lost his dad in the Northern Ireland troubles/war. He now leads a national charity that fights for and look after soldiers with PTSD. Send him this way if you want.
I worked for 16 years in the NHS in mental health and alongside the veterans support service that my trust set up, as well as helping out with my mate's charity surf action who also offered support. I've seen it first hand with my friend, how the army just disowned ex-servicemen and women once they'd left the forces. And I've seen plenty alcoholics / drug users / criminals who all share a military background and just feel hopeless. Mainstream services are getting better, but it's taken a long time and a lot of effort from ex-service personnel, as well as professionals in the services to get specialist support for people suffering from PTSD.
What's the charity called mate ? My friend is a lot better these days, but it's taken him years to get where he is now from the pit of despair he was in when he left the army. That was in 1991, it's 2017 now and he still has to manage his mental health properly to stop the slide. He set up a surf charity, which helped him as much as it helped the people he set it up for.
I know bro....like I just said to Luv...I hate these topics and I don't think anyone on here condones the killing of innocents...and I also know there are good soldiers...peace keeping missions....getting rid of land mines for the benefit of the locals, taking out trouble mongering Guerrillas etc. A part of me is scarred with what I've seen over the decades from some soldiers thriving off war. I just think it just takes one rogue soldier and someone lost their child...I'd struggle to live after that and I'd need to seek revenge. It's an uncomfortable thought
There are quite a few of those around now, too. I'm not saying that I'd join the armed forces, but we definitely need them. I'm sure that 99% of people want a nice, peaceful world, but the other 1% prevent that from ever happening, unfortunately. Our current military looks like it's receiving the Tory treatment though, so I doubt we'll be using it much. They'll spend money on expensive equipment from their donors, but **** the actual staff over and run it into the ground. Any youngster offering to join that must be crazy.
