I was looking for something else on 606 and came across this. Just had to have a read and made the eyes a bit watery. So I thought I would post the link for anyone who might be interested. Harbinger tribute
I remember when you wrote that Ron.I felt exactly the same at the time.I thought he would have pulverized any horse he would have met. Amazing talent,and IMO produced the 3rd greatest performance ive ever seen in my lifetime. Sad sad loss to the sport.
His King George victory will live long in the memory. It was without doubt one of the most impressive performances i have had the pleasure to witness. He made confirmed Group 1 horses look ordinary. However, for me the race and my conclusions are not that simple. For one i cannot believe that Sir Michael Stoute and Ryan Moore were so comprehnsively wrong about Workforce being their number one candidate. People may say that Moore would not have deserted a Derby winner but i find it hard to think of Ryan as the sentimental type. I am sure that he would have been on Harbinger if he thought he would win. It might be that he just showed a much higher level of form than he had previously shown, which caught connections by surprise, as well as the watching public. For this reason there will always be a question mark against him in my mind, and it was a tragic shame that he was denied the opportunity to answer it. But let that not detract from what was a superb performance. On that one day i doubt that there have been many horses that could have even got close to him.
"He made confirmed Group 1 horses look ordinary." Well, either that or they didn't run to any sort of form.
Exactly. Was he as good as he looked that day? I find it hard to believe what my eyes saw, and it is a travesty that he was never able to answer that question, one way or the other.
Exactly right, I too fear that he was flattered and it was dreadfully sad that he had the injury. At least he is able to stand at stud.
Hang on a minute did the clock not perform either on the day ?? I seem to remember many people sticking up for Workforce because of the time he clocked. Does the same not go for Harbinger ? Btw imo the only horse to under perform was Workforce, Cape Blanco is a fantastic race horse but has never beaten the best in our country before has he so why should it be such a shock to see Harbinger smash him if we want to play that way WORKFORCE only won an arc because others under performed CAPE BLANCO if you like ?? works both ways you see
How can a horse be flattered when he wins with such contemptuous ease in such a fast time. It was one of the most impressive performances I've ever seen. If we can pick holes in that run we can pick bigger holes in any run of any other horse. But I'm not going there. This thread is a tribute to a great horse who had a career ending accident which, as it happened, ruined what would have been for me a memorable one and only trip to the Arc.
I am not necessarily saying that he was flattered. What i am saying is that i find his performance difficult to digest. I think saying it was too good to be true pretty much sums it up. In my mind there is still a niggling doubt about it. I do not intend to diminish his performance in any way whatsoever, and it might well be that he was as good as he looked, but i find it hard to fully accept it on the back of one performance that looked "too good to be true". Perhaps he was that good but perhaps he wasn't. Others may have decided either way but for me it is a question that i will never know the answer to.
Can't argue with that Zen. I feel the same about some other horses heralded as "great". I think that is true in so many cases. As you say, we are just left with our opinions and no-one can argue they are wrong any more than we can argue they are right.
Canford cliffs wanders all over the track with something clearly wrong.Yet you get shot down if you even mention that it should slightly detract from Frankels Sussex win.Yet its ok to suggest that the entire field must have run under par against Harbinger. What a fickle bunch we are.
That is the beauty of the sport. Each and every one of us has their own opinions. Often it is a case of agreeing to disagree! My view would be that Frankel has proven himself a top class performer time and time again, as had Canford Cliffs. I am of the view that Canford ran below par but i don't think it had any impact on the result. Frankel was a convincing winner. In contrast Harbinger had shown potential but not the same level of brilliance that he showed in the King George. Therefore, in the lack of further evidence, there is, and always will be, a question mark in my mind. As i say, everybody is entitled to their opinions. Many may disagree with mine, and a few may agree. What is not in doubt is that the performance was immensely impressive. Whether that was because he was a brilliant racehorse (which i do not discount at all) or whether it was because circumstances conspired to the detriment of the others, or something else happened i do not know. As i have previously said the question mark in my mind arises purely because it seemed too good to be true. I am a fickle member of the fickle bunch!!!
I would have liked to have seen Harbinger put in a similar perfromance like that away from Ascot. I backed Harbinger that day in the King George only because of the fact that he performed so well on the course in the Hardwicke at the Royal meeting. Nathaniel won the Edward VII this year and then did the business (though obviously not in such similar fashion to Harbinger) in the King George. Ascot really is a "horses for courses" track these days, it would've been interesting to see if Harbinger could have produced the same level of form at York or Longchamp. While Harbinger's victories in the John Porter and the Ormonde were commendable, it was nowehere near the sort of form he produced at Ascot.
I realy don't understand how anyone can doubt the form of Harbinger. Workforce may have ran a stinker, but for me even at his best he would only have been 3rd as I rate Cape Blanco as a superior horse to Workforce. The form of Harbingers victory is bomb proof, he smashed the course record, Youmzain and Daryakana ran to the pound with each other, having finished neck and neck in the Grand Prix Saintcloud a month before hand. Cape Blanco won the Irish Derby before that and then romped home in the Irish Champion after the KG. Harbinger was an outstanding race horse, and had it not been for an injury, he would have won the Arc just as easily. As for Canford Cliffs, he was at his best against Frankel, no doubt about it, if you ask me. They crawled for the first 1/2 furlong but after that Frankel was going a pace that was just about quick enough to get CC out of his comfort zone, hence why Frankie on RDP and the french horse, sat off the pace, because they knew the pace was to fast. CC stayed close to Frankel, and come the home straight, he didn't have anything left to go past Frankel, whilst Frankel was still cruising, Tom Queally didn't even need to press the button in hindsight, I fancy he could have crossed the line on the bridle. The reason RDP got closer to CC, was because CC tried to go with Frankel where as RDP didnt. We've seen before in the Greenham that CC hangs when he's tired and under pressure, so I don't see how the hanging is an excuse. Horses like CC always apear better than they are, because of the way they win there races, coming from last to first looks very flashy, but in reality a horse who can win from the front is the sign of a better race horse, needing a lead of another horse is not the sign of a champion. Very few horse's have had the ability to go from the front from start to finish in G1s, and still have more left in the locker when the cards are played. The likes of Dubai Millennium could make all and still be pulling clear in the final furlong, that is the sign of a freakish race horse, Frankel is the same
I echo this view completely. If we had seen a repeat showing in the Arc he would have gone down as a superb horse, but for me I still have doubts over the Ascot factor.
Fair enough KS one cannot argue with a literal reading of that form. But that was 10lbs better than he showed at any other time which is why he was the price he was in the KG. I have sympathies with the stated views of Zenyatta and Chance Gardener. I liked Harbinger and backed him to win the Porter and the Hardwicke, and his performance in the KG was exhilirating but it was a tragedy he didn't run again or show that form at any other time.
i can doubt the form of harbingers win. did cape blanco run to his best form at ascot? he won the irish derby before and the irish champion after,but also ran a stinker in the arc.the arc came less than a month after his fast effort in the irish champion stakes.his king george run also came less than a month after his irish derby win,so you could argue that cape blanco was brought back too soon for ascot and didnt put in his best.also does he like ascot?i know the mile was too short in the queen anne,but 16 lengths is a big beating for such a talented horse.maybe there is something about ascot that he doesnt like? then you have youmzain,3 arc seconds ,but in last years arc came 10th,beaten by roughly the same distance in that as he was in the king george.so youmzain may of well of deteriorated as he lined up for the king george.you could also make a case that he too doesnt prefer ascot,dylan thomass beats him by 4l in the 2007 king george wheres in the same years arc he only beats him by a head,suggesting he is a better horse at longchamp. previous runs at ascot ,20 length beating by papal bull,dylan thomas a mentioned,2008 king george,9.5 lengths beating by duke of marmalade ,then harbinger gives hima 14.5l beating ,so to me he wasnt the most reliable horse to use to determine the ratings. darykana,ran once more at a lower level and ran poor,then the aga khan retired her.so you could argue that she also was not running to her 4yo seasons form,as far as im aware she was not injured which forced the retirement,it appears she was not the same horse as a 5yo compared to being a 4yo. then the race time,course record???does anyone know what the previous record was and set by who? it was about 1/2 second (2.5 lengths) slower and set by a 3yo handicapper!!! then you have stoutes comments,he thought there was nothing in it between workforce and harbinger,workforce ran a stinker,no doubt about that,but the managed to beat youmzain by just 1/2 length shorter in the arc than harbinger did at ascot. to me there is lots of evidence to suggest the beaten horses ran no where near the best that day and with workforce winning the arc after earning rpr of 130 harbinger also could of ran to that figure in the king george.
GP Grundy held the course record for 35 years before Harbinger broke it.So it obviously took an extra special talent to do this.
