So what exactly is it that you have gained from your religion that you could not have gained by other means? You can have a positive outlook on life without imaginary friends. It's all about how you decide you perceive things. A placebo really. God didn't change your life, you did. And if god speaks to you then would you mind asking him questions such as: "if you are good and omnipotent then why are billions of people suffering?" "why did you create hitler?" "why is it that according to the bible you used to be able to perform genocides, plagues, floods, miraculous healing and everything a few thousand years back but nowadays you only appear on toast occasionally?" "why does the bible claim the earth is flat when it quite clearly is not?" And how does science point to god? Science in itself doesn't have the presupposition that god does or does not exists, it's just that to this day nothing has been found to support the belief god exists but plenty against it so scientifically it is safe to assume there is no god.
Could you also ask god why every time i insult religion, i suffer pain of some sort. Recently it's been a toothache. I know i'll get ebola (google it) for posting this thread.
No evidence has been found against the general idea that there may be a god. It's a concept that means different things to different people, which makes it impossible to disprove. Whenever anything in a religious text is disproved, it becomes a metaphor.
'a little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.' francis bacon eg Keith Moore - a professor emeritus in the division of anatomy (department of surgery), former Chair of anatomy from 1976 to 1984 and associate dean for Basic Medical Sciences in the Faculty of Medicine at the University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada. He is a founding member of the American Association of Clinical Anatomists (AACA). He was President of the AACA between 1989 and 1991. In 1982, Dr Keith L. Moore made the following statements on the embryological data mentioned in the Qu'ran and Hadith. "It has been a great pleasure for me to help clarify statements in the Quraan about human development. It is clear to me that these statements must have come to Muhammad from God or Allah, because almost all of this knowledge was not discovered until many centuries later. This proves to me that Muhammad must have been a messenger of God or Allah." Jaques Coustea - "I swear, that this Qu'oran, from which the modern science lags behind on 1400 years, cannot be speech of the person. It is true speech of Almighty"- "First, we investigated water of Mediterranean Sea - its natural level of salinity, density and forms of life inherent in it. We made the same in Atlantic Ocean. These two weights of water meet in Strait of Gibraltar already thousand years and it would be logical to assume, that these two huge water weights for a long time should get mixed up - their salinity and density should become identical, or, at least, similar. But even in places, where they converge closely, each of them keeps its properties. In other words, in places of merge of two weights of water, water curtain does not allow them to mix up". On detecting this blatant though improbable fact, the scientist was extremely surprised. "I long rested on laurels at this surprising phenomenon which is not explained by laws of physics and chemistry", - writes Cousteau. But the scientist had an even greater surprise and admiration when he found out that this had written in Qu'oran for more than 1400 years. He learned about it from the French Doctor Moris Bukay (Maurice Bucaille), who had already accepted Islam. And Allah swt says in the Holy Quoran: "He has made the two seas to flow freely (so that) they meet together: Between them is a barrier which they cannot pass" (55: 19-20) Dr Maurice Bucaille - In 1976, he published his book, The Bible, The Qur'an and Science which argued that the Qur'an contains no statements contradicting established scientific fact. just a few examples for you to mull over others include the light of the moon the spinning of the earth and sun on their axis etc phenomenon described 1400 years ago, which science only learnt recently
Francis Bacon has been dead for nearly 300 years. Science has had a few advances since then. What you have quoted is a couple of people interpreting very vague scripture to match modern advances. If the scripture wasn't vague, then it would've actually driven those advances and we wouldn't have had to wait 1400 years to work out what they supposedly mean. The light of the moon? The Greeks knew that the moon was only reflecting the light of the sun around 1,000 years prior to the existence of the Quran. They attempted to use the angle of the reflection to estimate the distance to the sun. This wasn't unknown. The sun and the moon? The Quran actually suggests that the sun orbits the earth, but it's another vague passage, so believers now interpret this to mean that there was some advanced knowledge about the sun's movement within the universe. More interestingly, there are passages that make absolutely no sense. Does the sun set in a marshy spring? I don't think that it does.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strait_of_Gibraltar It's explained there pretty simply. And even after that long post I still have no idea how someone can claim science points to god because to me it does the exact opposite. Even if there was a phenomenon that science can't explain that still doesn't mean it proves it's the work of god, merely that science needs to work harder to explain it. The time when quran and bible were written people believed the earth was flat, among other things, most natural natural phenomena were completely over their heads so the only explanation they could think of was some kind of a supernatural entity, a god. But nowadays science has shown that there are natural explanations to things that for Iron Age people were absolutely incredible, it's been proven that there is no god or anything supernatural involved in those. There is nothing scientific that supports the belief that god exists.
I've never even read quran but I can immediately think of at least three statements that do. First the quran states that allah created earth. It's impossible to produce matter out of thin air. Then the quran states god created mountains, rivers and such. Well science has proven they've come about in a natural manner. Then quran talks about a place called "heaven" which is supposed to exist somewhere in the vicinity of earth. too bad no one has found it. Must be an interesting book though
Agree 100%, wont go into my own personal experiences of this but suffice to say a certain persons belief was a great comfort for them right to the end.
The obvious answer to that is that both a Hindu and a Jew, for example, may both find great comfort in their individual beliefs, yet they both cannot be right. They can both be wrong, though. Individual medical do not prove the power of prayer, either. Diseases sometimes go into remission for no apparent reason, other than the body's natural defences and the study of prayer hasn't shown it to be effective. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article1072638.ece
I don't understand why people who are atheists feel the need to belittle those who do believe in God. I find it highly disrespectful and extremely arrogant. People should be allowed to believe (or not believe) whatever they like, you won't find me crying about anyone who doesn't believe in God and making them out to be stupid. Belief in God is not what causes wars and sufferings, it's people who use their beliefs and/or religion as an excuse to cause trouble who are the problem. No religion tells people to harm others, quite the opposite in fact. Also it is possible to follow science and believe in God.
I hope that the above comment wasn't directed at me, as I don't believe that I've said anything disrespectful or arrogant. People are entitled to believe whatever they like. I haven't suggested that science and a belief in god/s are incompatible either, just that there's nothing in science to suggest the existence of a god, that I know of.
It was directed at the OP and those who try and make out people who believe in God to be stupid. Science can't completely prove whether God does or doesn't exist because it can't prove what caused everything to exist and to come together and produced life (i.e. what caused the "Big Bang"). Certain aspects of Science are based on theories and no-one can prove 100% that they are true. I agree that you should be able to believe whatever you like (or not believe in anything), free will and all that. I wouldn't go around telling people who don't believe in God that they are wrong and stupid so I can't stand atheists who make out people who believe in God to be stupid. I believe in God but I am also a great follower of science, it fascinates me (especially anything environmental related). Belief in God doesn't start war. It's idiots who use religion and/or their beliefs as excuse to treat others like **** who are the problem, when no religion tells you to harm others.
I take it that you know the difference between the scientific use of the word theory and the layman's use, then?
After reading all these posts, i've discovered another reason why people choose to believe in gods. Insecurity.
Francis Bacon lived at a time when people believed that migratory birds fly to the Moon during winter. And as for the Qur'an not contradicting science in any way...
There are theories such as the Big Bang theory which is impossible to prove conclusively unless you could travel back in time, which is not possible.
This thread still going on? What do you all aim to achieve by arguing and trying to piss over each others opinions? Some believe in God, some believe in Science, others believe in both and some may believe in neither. Now let's talk about something we can all agree on like politics
