Off Topic Political Debate

I realize that you are beside yourself with excitement at the perceived rise of the extreme right in some other countries, but try to curb your enthusiasm a little. The AfD in Germany is certainly no further right than Ukip was/is (in fact Farage has spoken at one of their conferences), and will have considerably less influence than Ukip because of the German political system - their goals also do not include withdrawal from the EU. At the other extreme - die Linke are no further left than Jeremy Corbyn is (which I said earlier, but you do not appear to have observed). Contrary to your wishes, countries on this side of the Channel are not in any imminent danger of disintegration

 

The re-emergence of the far right in Germany is not something to celebrate but it was clearly predicted with Merkel's massive faux pas. Like Ukip did in the UK, the presence of AfD will influence future German government policy, Merkel has already stated 'she will listen to those that voted for AfD'.

I think you can rule out her making the same mistake twice. I do not expect EU governments to disintegrate but there is a worrying trend to move politics towards the extremes.

 

You celebrated the rise of the FN in France, and their counterparts in Austria and Holland?

 

Certainly not, I was just pointing out their increasing prominence. Your should read my posts more carefully.

 

Now that is the daftest comment i have read today.....

 

It would be one thing if either of the two main parties showed a united front within their own ranks, but as we have all seen over the past week that is as far away as ever. The Labour party can sort their policies out between them, they are not in government, but the Tories are, even if in a minority role, and instead of having one policy on the biggest issue of the day they still cannot tell us what they want this transition period they are begging for will lead to. Stable government? I don't think so.

 

It is quite obvious the Labour Party has so many cracks it is bound to burst open. The controlling Tory government just needs Barnier to stick to his demand for a 100 billion ransom, that will unite the party in an instant. The present charade of a negotiation could then finish so we can plan on leaving the EU a.s.a.p.

 

You didn't want Marine Le Pen elected?

That's not what you were saying a few months ago.

 

Good to see that you finally admit that the Tory party is not united.

 

What superior and insightful political analysis.

I suggest you get in touch with David Davies straight away. Clearly you are the one to do do what no one else in the Govt has been able to up to now...

 

The AfD are beginning to fall apart already. The AfD will have no influence whatsoever in the Bundestag. One of their leading lights Fauke Petry has already gone - accusing her party of having no central direction anymore, and trying to appeal to too many people. The SPD will leave the government and join the opposition - thus neutralizing the AfD on the opposition benches. Merkel has to form a majority government before she can be influenced by anyone - and that will be far from easy. The Germans have never had a minority government - but now may be the time to start because the Greens would rip themselves apart as a party if they joined a right wing coalition - and we are not prepared to sacrifice ourselves in this way.

 

Wrong again, I preferred the Conservative candidate who alas caught 'the French fiddling politician disease'. Le Pen had far too many left wing fiscal policies for my liking.

 

Like what?

 

France's Le Pen woos left wing by attacking banks, trade and the rich ...

 

There is no mystery in this. Looking at where the AfD got their voters from: Around 1,070,000 were ex CDU voters, 500,000 from the SPD, 430,000 from die Linke, 50,000 from the FDP and 40,000 from the Greens - together with 740,000 classified as 'others', which means either drawn from the ranks of non voters or first time voters. This implies that what we call far right parties actually get nearly as many supporters from the left as from the right. Very often far right parties (for want of a better description) have a programme which is economically left but socially right wing - this is no new occurence. Both the Nazis and the Italian Fascists were ideologically very anti capitalist.

 

I think in Le Pen's case she was struggling to win so she embarked on half baked promises, similar to Corbyn's tactics, just to broaden the appeal.

 

Le Pen clearly did say what she thought would be popular to try and gain power without having the conviction or the support of the party. Since the election this populist approach has seen the party disintegrate as happens when there is not something that binds them together. We have seen it happening in the UK where it was easy to say we leave the EU, but as time has gone on people have realized that it is not as simple as some of the Tory politicians said it would be. The result has been a hung parliament, and leading government ministers fighting like rats in a sack. A simple message gets through to some, but the details eventually have to be discussed and people find they are not going to get what they were told. It all brings democracy into ill repute.

 

The far right will remain a force in French politics because the causes of its rise are still there.

The Tory's unsuccessful bid to increase its majority had nothing to do with Brexit. It was purely down to the proposed changes to care and pensioner benefits which have now been dropped. The Labour Party promised unfunded bribes which fooled some. The response by MPs of the main two parties to the referendum has reinforced UK democracy despite the desperate remoaners antics.

 

Is that what the Express told you?

Shame it's a complete nonsense.

The Tories increased their share of the vote in the over 55's segment. Brexit played a big part in the swing to Labour, if it wasn't for the collapse of UKiP and most of their voters going back to the Tories she'd have had an even bigger disaster on her hands

https://www.ipsos.com/ipsos-mori/en-uk/how-britain-voted-2017-election

 

As people walk past the newspaper stands today they will see the following headlines.

Boris simple minded on Brexit. Daily Telegraph
PM tries to keep a lid on revolt. Metro
David Davis: the plan to become PM. i
New EU plot to wreck Brexit. Daily Express

Read on and you find that about 50 Tories want May out. This is getting very close to the number required to hold a vote.