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International Racing

Discussion in 'Horse Racing' started by Cyclonic, Sep 14, 2016.

  1. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    Winx looking to make it 19 on the trot.

     
    #381
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  2. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hell, what a mare! That was, yet again, almost impossible! Like most people, would love to see her going for a big race in Europe. <ok>
     
    #382
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2017
  3. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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  4. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    A punter had $63,000 on Winx at $1.06. <yikes>
     
    #384
  5. bayernkenny

    bayernkenny Well-Known Member

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    Bet (?) his sphincter was quivering 200 metres out!
     
    #385
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  6. bayernkenny

    bayernkenny Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for obvious sexist post - "his/her"!
     
    #386
  7. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    The G1 Critérium des 5 Ans was run and won yesterday. The two horses thought to have it between them, ended up fighting it out. The commentator needs to work on his faux French accent. It's the only English speaking replay I can find.

     
    #387
  8. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    That won't be happening anytime soon. The Aussies might have some good sprinters capable of winning here in Europe, but in terms of middle distance horses, they are no match for Europes best.

    They are so far behind us in terms of breeding, that the G1 standard out there is barely listed standard here in Europe.

    I don't ever recall an Australian trained horse doing anything in middle distance races here.

    Obviously So You Think did ok under AOB, but even he was out of an Epsom Derby winner, and although he won some races he didn't really prove to be a superstar like he was considered in Australia.

    In terms of world stars, the only horse I believe could come over here and dominate is Arrogate, he is really something special, and is up there with the likes of Frankel as one of the best horses of all time when on form.
     
    #388
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  9. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    The G1, million dollar Memsie Stakes run yesterday Melbourne.

     
    #389
  10. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    With the recent failures of Arrogate, has Gun Runner assumed the mantle of America's best horse? He's just made a one act affair of the G1 Woodward Stakes at Saratoga.

     
    #390
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  11. bayernkenny

    bayernkenny Well-Known Member

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    Sitting on decent 7/1 wager for BC Classic against Baffert's three contenders!

    Strangely still available at 4/1 with Hills so considering a wee top up.
     
    #391
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
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  12. SwanHills

    SwanHills Well-Known Member

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    The 2-miles of the Melbourne Cup is hardly middle-distance, but although European horses have done quite well since Vintage Cop's success in 1993, it can hardly be said that they have mopped things up every year since? Just two winners since then (2002 & 2010), although Jeune (1994) did start his career in the U.K. and was English-bred by Kalaglow, and won a Group 2 over 1-1/2 miles before he was shipped to Australia.
     
    #392
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2017
  13. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    No one in Europe breeds horses to win 2 mile races, horses tend to end up as stayers after failed middle distance careers. Even the greatest stayer of them all Yeats was a failed middle distance horse.

    Let's not also forget that the Melbourne Cup is a handicap race, and is only a G1 in name. In reality it is not a proper G1 race. There is no such thing as a G1 handicap. If that race was a level weights race European horses would have won a lot more times, as they are always high in the weights. Yeats for example was conceding more than a stone to most of the field when he had a crack at it.
     
    #393
  14. OddDog

    OddDog Mild mannered janitor
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    Years conceded more than a stone to only 10 of the other 22 runners and was giving the winner 7 pounds.
     
    #394
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  15. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    Maybe things in this part of the world aren't as bad as you think Shergy. I've had a bit of a scout back at the Cox Plate's recent history and found it interesting. Not too many Northern horses contest the race so it's a little hard to line things up. The two decent horses who've had a crack in the last decade or so are Adelaide who in 2014 beat Falkner a short neck with Silent Achiever a half head away. Hardly a flogging. Then in 2015, Highland Reel in finishing third to Winx, was beaten over 10 lengths. A flogging by any terms.

    As for So You Think, those who've followed the sport for decades didn't get carried away with the hype of the Australian press. He was a fine racehorse, but he was not in the Kingston Town, Tulloch, Might And Power or Winx league. I could throw in another dozen who were as good.
     
    #395
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  16. Cyclonic

    Cyclonic Well Hung Member

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    I forgot the most important part of it all Shergy. The main reason Winx is staying here according to her trainer, is the prize money. If she was mine, there's no way on god's green earth I'd take her to the UK. So far Winx has won AU13,183,425, better that 8 million pounds and there's still a heap to come. What's the most prize money a horse has earned by racing in the UK only?
     
    #396
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  17. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    Hmmm. Yes, why should she come to us? Maybe we should send something over there to take her on; the financial incentive is there. Highland Reel tried and couldn't do it. That leaves Enable, Ulysses and Cracksman, probably the only ones that could take her on with any confidence
     
    #397
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  18. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry Cyc but you've just further proved my point, Adelaide never even ran in a G1 here in Europe as he was never good enough to. He contested a couple of G2s and was beaten both times. So a horse not even good enough to win a G2 here in Europe has gone and won your premier race, even with the jet lag <laugh>

    Highland Reel contested the Cox Plate as a 3yo, this is the same Highland Reel who that year was thrashed in the Irish Derby by Jack Hobbs finishing in 5th place, and was then thrashed by Golden Horn when 5th in the Irish Champion stakes. Yeah he won G1s in Shatin and Arlington that year, but again these are up against trees away from Europe. He was not good enough in G1 races in Europe as a 3yo, and his race results prove this. His best win in Europe was a G3 win at Goodwood.

    So the Cox Plate has had 2 European raiders in recent years, neither being a G1 winner in Europe before hand and they have a 50% strike rate, in the premier race down under.

    Winx is a good mare, but if she comes to Europe that streak will be broken, it's just a whole different level of competition here.
     
    #398
  19. King Shergar

    King Shergar Well-Known Member

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    I don't doubt the prize money in Europe is rubbish, it's the worst around, but the prize money of the races doesn't prove a race is of higher quality than another.

    The European races still carry a lot more value in terms of world reputation. It doesn't really affect Winx, being a mare, but if a stallion was doing what she was doing in Australia, a good victory in Europe would add millions and millions on to that horses value and potential future earnings.

    So wether the actual prize is better in Australia, it's not just about the money a horse wins on the track. The likes of Frankel will make a lot more money in his career than any horse in Australia will. That is because he is a proven winner at the very highest level.

    It's up to the owners of Winx as financially being a mare they don't have much to gain coming to Europe, but if she's won all that money then surely there comes a point where it's not really about the money. They could actually look at it from a sporting point of view, and realise if they want their mare to get global recognition then she has to win at the highest level. Much like they did with Black Caviar.

    I personally do not think she has a hope of winning here, but it would certainly be interesting to see her try.
     
    #399
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  20. Ron

    Ron Well-Known Member
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    What horse(s) would you back to beat her Shergs? I think over here I would back the three I mentioned but not sure I would want to risk money on anything else
     
    #400

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