Im exaggerating a bit STH but come on now, it wasnt what you would describe as fast ground, Sovereign Debt won the listed mile race in 1.41 odds, slow by nearly 6 seconds, the big mile handicap was slow by 4 seconds, the Derby itself was slow by almost 5 seconds, and the 2 mile handicap after was slow by nearly 13 seconds. Jack Hobbs has run on proper fast ground only twice in his life, in the Derby and the last time at Ascot. He was only beaten 5 1/2L and was eased down the last furlong, its not like he never went a yard and was beat half the track, he just wasnt suited to that test, tomorrow is a different ball game entirely. Treve smashed the track record on a road in the Prix De Diane as a 3yo but later in career she couldnt beat Group 2 horses on firm.
I would describe it as good. Well, it was firm and hard. Call it what you prefer after that. It was probably the worst experience I've ever had racing at that Derby which is why it lingers long in the memory for all the wrong reasons. I backed Jack Hobbs too and Buick seemed a little taken a back in the immediate aftermath of the race. Anyway, get back to discussing the race the morrow. I've narrowed it down to 7 now myself.
I would say it was just good ground, probably described as gd to soft outside Ireland. On fast ground the Irish Derby is run sub 2.30, when you start getting close to 2.35 its not fast ground.
That's what I said. It was good ground 2 or 3 times. They went a crawl that day Eddie, don't forget that my good man. Every man in the street knew JH was the likely winner, they had to try something to upset the apple cart.
So if your right Eddie and the only time Jack Hobbs encountered firm ground was the Derby. Then you've still got to say he ran a really good race that day. Take Golden Horn out of the picture and JH would have been an easy 4 length winner. Pretty much the same as what happened in the Irish Derby.
Wasnt much behind Shergar but as I said with Treve, they might do it first time on Firm but maybe they are sore later and remember it, look after themselves after that.
I can't believe you said that Joe, after the long conversation we had at the time. I'm sure that was to bait me but I'll bite my finger
what are you suggesting Ron, that it wasnt firm ground when treve smashed the Diane track record by about 2 seconds iirc?
I'll be having a couple of quid ew on benbati,most of the others have question marks for me over trip and ground. Highland reel is the class act for me but won't like the ground. Dubawis tend to go well with cut in the ground
Why exactly do people think Jack Hobbs is definitely better on soft? Nothing we've seen agrees with that. I see it as he is oft injured and therefore the connections think soft or similar will do less damage to him. Not that he's better on soft.
I'm a huge Jack Hobbs fan, but I though his last run was crap. It's all too easy to say he took it easy because of the ground, but I think backing him after that run, is punting on faith, not form. I'd much rather choose something with building form, not suss form, when appraising the race chances. I don't punt, but I love to see JH turn it around though.
Bang on about Jack Hobbs as much as you like, all of you. A waste of breath in my opinion, he'd have to be 8/1 for me to back him. This race is all about Enable. The price isn't great, true. But she is the classic winner, the improving animal with the potential to be a cut above these. Then there's the pull at the weights, and the fact she has the best trainer of fillies in the business. I'm in.
Can I just ask why people keep going on about the weight allowance Enable has? Anyone would think these 3yo fillies have a huge advantage in these open G1 races, but in actual fact they are still at a massive disadvantage. If the weight allowance was such a benefit, and a reason to dismiss the rest of the field because of it, then 3yo fillies would be running and winning this race every year. When you look back through the record books, Taghrooda is the only 3yo fillie to win in the last 40 years, you have to go all the way back to Pawneese, another oaks winner in 1976 who also followed up in the KG to find another. I do still fancy Enable to win today, as I do think she's exceptional, but I don't think it's fair for people to try to make out she's at a massive advantage here. Take a look at a 3yo fillie and a 5yo stallion stood next to one another, and you'll see the reason she is getting an allowance. And even with the allowance, the older stallions still have a big physical advantage.
