I joined that one, but you just got 'offended'. I though going back to a simpler one could help calm you down. If they don't have pagan origins, how do you account for the fact that key traditions, like christmas, easter, ramadan and the kaaba, predate them?
I accept that there are many, many things that happened in the past that we now find unacceptable. We've moved on in many ways. The past serves as an example to learn from, and try not to repeat the same mistakes, Books written then are interesting examples of this.
So you stopped listening based on your own perceptions, rather than hearing his words with an open mind. Okey doke. None of that changes the fact he was actively involved in tackling muslim grooming gangs targeting sikhs, nor his comments on how that was received and the outcome in respect of the targets.
You being shown up for being a tit/wrong isn't me being offended. You don't seem to read well again. I already explained about Christianity, but FYI can discuss it with you if you wish? But can we stick to one religion/ topic at a time and move through them? It saves on essays and we can go into depth In terms of Islam, which is what I would prefer to focus on, then pick a topic and let's do this, like adults. No more name calling/accusations etc Deal?
See last comment In response to this I worked in community safety for 15 years so know this topic and happy to discuss with YOU. Raise your points and happy to discuss. But no I don't take him seriously or anyone who claims to be something when they are not. Don't do oxymorons
You're not actually saying anything there. I'm asking adult questions, but getting nonsense like that back. I'll take your deal, it's where I am anyway, all it needs is for you to join in.
If what was known about? Grooming of girls for sex and prostitution didn't start and end with cases in Yorkshire etc.
OK cool. Bygones ate bygones, so let's start fresh. What do you want to know? FYI I will ask for clarifications if to be certain I am understanding correctly. Think you will agree that's the adult thing to do? But go
Do believe many of the main religious traditions have pagan origins? If not, how do you explain the fact the pre-date them by a considerable time?
That's a false premise, the white bit Its established that all girls were targets and cases in Birmingham and other parts show that Asian girls also suffered The targets were based on availability and vulnerability
This question is a bit vague tbh. As I said Christianity as we know it today does incorporate pagan and religious practices. So can we focus on what you see as pagan origins? In terms of Islam then when we look at say the Kaaba the its basis has always been in religion, it went through periods were pagans also used it but reverted back to religion
It's not a wholly false premise, they targeted other groups prior to that, but the elders in those groups were not as bound by political correctness, so could take direct action, which ended it, but shifted the targets. One of the compounding factors was the authorities being fearful to act, in case of a 'community' backlash. Do you find that is an issue that needs to be addressed by all the sides at the same time as the grooming culture?
Pagan is a collection of religions. The kaaba was pagan until it was morphed into islam, as was ramadam and praying several times. Islam just took the pagan moon god, and reused the traditions.
I know right, I was shocked when I clicked on this thread this morning and saw the same argument being waged..... I ducked out of this days ago I have better things to do, truth be told.
The community backlash was overplayed because the service providers wanted to deflect attention off themselves. Social care providers, the police and even parents were unable or unwilling to help or take issues seriously. Many mosques etc highlighted what was happening and even gave sermons on it but they went ignored It's not uncommon. Victim support for example won't admit that the police partners and spouses are the largest group of domestic violence even though they know as money comes from a community safety budget from the police I had first hand evidence of some of what happened with some of the grooming cases and its hard to ignore facts like 14 year olds missing for days on end not reported and when they did come forward were dismissed as slags, not in so many words but pretty much that. Once it came out then the first cause of action was to deflect blame I forget the name of the organisation just now, but there was a lot of work done on this in Blackburn before things went public when they did. Likes of Jack straw were involved but never highlighted it when they took stance when the **** hit the fan The only victims were the girls everyone else failed them
Kaaba was pagan just before Muhammad appeared on the scene and "reclaimed" it but it wasn't pagan. It's roots belong in religion How do you figure Islam took the moon God? Sure Islam uses a lunar calendar rather than a solar one as done today but I don't get your assertion
