So he didn't coast... at the tightest corner possible to concertina the pack at all then no? It's all vettel fault?
Well, just try explaining to a judge in an English court of law that, you ran into the rear of the car in front and then got alongside the said preceding vehicle and you then turned into him and caused a collision and it was all the fault of the preceding driver, sounds like 12 points and a disqualification to me. Vettel is a complete and utter prick. imo.
from inside Vettel's car it doesn't look like he swiped him, his hand on the wheel doesn't do a sharp jerk to the right like you'd expect if he'd done it on purpose, more drifting into him because he's more interested in giving Hamilton a mouthful he couldn't hear than making sure his car is going in a straight line. Still a stupid thing to do with no excuse for pulling alongside whatsoever, but banning and DSQ? no, give him a big fine that goes to charity.
Yes. He clobbered the back of another car then completely lost it. He's fortune to not get black flagged. Vettel knows he cocked up and I expect him to be a little more reasonable about the whole thing when he's had enough time to look back on it. All drivers balls it up from time to time, today was one of those days for Vettel. They happen, sometimes **** boils over.
Whether he coasted or not was not my point. My point is that he is allowed to lift if he chooses, especially in a tight corner and especially when only about 150 meters from the Safety Car. I hope you see this is quite different to "slamming on" the brakes. Furthermore, he is entirely at liberty to "concertina the pack" if he chooses. This is the prerogative of the leading car following the Safety Car when it's lights have gone out to signal its intention to re-enter the pits. Yes, Vettel was entirely at fault. Both in the technical sense (as described) and in the far more serious behavioural sense (as described earlier in the thread).
Hamilton knew what he was doing he isn't an angel in this situation. He knows it. Seb lost his mind as anyone would, he wouldn't have reacted like that if it was all his own mistake. Not saying it was right but theres more to it. Furthermore I don't like how Lewis has taken to spinning the media to his side. Did the same with Rosberg and Alonso. Always the innocent party, quite frankly sick of it. Easy to call a 4 time champion a disgrace and disgusting, the media love that. Would also be easy for us to say that for asking Valtteri to move over when he is a million miles down the road fighting for his own position.
I have to disagree with that. Red mist can descend even when an error is your own fault. There can be an immediate need to lash out even when an error is entirely of your own making, and Vettel has had a little bit of a pattern on that. I'd say that's one aspect of his racing he needs to address.
Of course Hamilton knew what he was doing. He knew also that it was entirely within the rules, and that Vettel would have to slow down because he is not allowed to overtake - as he knows Vettel also knows this! There's nothing more to it. For once, it's black and white. As you say, "Seb lost his mind" - which is the most serious problem and outcome of all this - but I do not agree with your suggested justification of it. Spinning the media is another thing altogether, and something I'm not keen on either. It's been going on for 30 odd years and like you, I don't like it.
I'm gonna take a short-cut and take to the end. Hamilton at Spa in 2008 or Schumacher at Adelaide in 1994
oh, I think we did the double, I mentioned spa 08 somewhere, so we have completed the necessaries for Westy's law.
For all the criticism you (and i) may level at Hamilton, he has never done this. He's lost his head many times and it's lead to a few clumbsy moves, but never a deliberate swipe. It's absolutely no correct to say anyone would do the same. Seb is alone in this amongst this generation of drivers. Maldonado is his only peer.
Not every driver is the same PR polished robot that F1 and the media desires. Sorry about that. There will be oddballs now and again, but it's the oddballs that make this sport what it is.
I don't get the whole Hamilton, polished robot bit. If anything I think he's absolutely hopeless at the whole PR bit. It just never quite works and always feels a bit awkward. I preferred it when he was just himself.
What Vettel did today went beyond throwing off the shackles of PR. Everyone needs to be able control their anger to at least some degree. Perhaps we all need a pantomime villain to keep things interesting... but it is traditional to boo the villain...
There is another angle here. If Hamilton had brake tested Vettel he ran a huge risk of a puncture let alone aero damage to the rear floor. So why risk a win? In days of old strong tyres and not much aero brake testing did happen and usually damaged the following car. These days the cars are so aero dependant and have fragile tyres any driver brake testing the car behind is mad. As stated when the safety car lights go out lead driver controls page, remember lead driver had managed to get ultimate advantage over all cars behind by being in front, overtaking is then only allowed after the safety car line (I think or is it start line?). To me Vettel got caught be Hamilton backing the pack up. He was kicking himself for falling for Hamiltons tactics again and the Red Mist got the better of him. Deliberately causing a collision needs to be shown as not acceptable no matter what speed the cars are travelling. Look at the what the precedent of 'lifting off' in waved yellows led to!!!!
Ya know... I can't excuse what Vettel did at all, it was petulant and stupid at best, but bloody hell, we've needed something like this to really ignite a championship fight! We need a proper gloves off, ding dong fight to the end! Bring it on!
I hear ya, Bhaji! The touch-paper of the modern-day epic has finally been ignited! It's bound to polarise opinion to some degree - which itself is not a bad thing. Nonetheless, one has to set out one's stall if one is to participate... Thus far and over the years, I've not liked what I've seen of Vettel's on-track antics and also have a personal understanding of some of the stuff Hamilton's been through - even though I dislike his seemingly scripted ineptitude when it comes to P.R. In that regard, the naturally likeable out of the car personality of Vettel easily out-points Hamilton. On track though, I find it interesting both have set out from the very start to emulate their respective heroes - neither of which were ever on my Christmas list but both of whom I respected in terms of respective (but different) 'pure' driving talent when allowed to shine through. But the real irony is that the Senna / Schumacher epic that should have treated the world but never came to pass may finally arrive in the form of those who admire them both the most! EMSC, the following statement is meant tongue-in-cheek, even if there is an undercurrent of truth. Perhaps my reasoning above goes some way to explain why you and I are already programmed to disagree if it comes to preferring the ethics of Hamilton or Vettel? My reasoning is a subtlety, since I didn't/don't care for either of their idols, one of whom – in my opinion – raised the bar for what was already unacceptable so far that he took the proverbial urine from the lack of consequences he'd seen for his predecessor(s). Exponentially. Single-handedly. Senna often reacted emotionally and ruthlessly. But Schumacher wrote down the word "ruthless" as a fundamental; calculated as an essential objective forming part of his personal, primal armoury. In the immediate era following Senna's untimely death, your (and Vettel's) hero created the need for all manner of minutiae in rules which had before been largely a matter of etiquette and 'gentlemanly conduct'; some might even say, "common sense" - when the consequences of error flirted with The Grim Reaper... Perhaps no wonder then, that if forced to choose between the two current protagonists, Vettel – who appears to have a driving mentality based at least in part upon Schumacher and his version of 'ruthless' – would be my villain! P.S. Yet on a personal level, I find it far easier to get along with Vettel than Hamilton. He's clever, engaging, comes across as spontaneous* especially when not speaking of himself, and immediately likeable. But when it comes to acknowledging a racing driver, the most relevant data is what happens on track. In this regard, for me, Hamilton is out on his own. He is the greatest driver of the modern era – and in that, I include Alonso and Schumacher. Perhaps it is this that you fear most? That Hamilton is already treading the ground of Schumacher's statistics? - Especially when Pole positions are often considered a more accurate measure of ultimate performance than outright (often contrived) victories. Again EMSC, I do not mean to goad. I hope you can find my comparisons worth considering and why you and I are pre-programmed to disagree! For what it's worth, I like you a lot. You have integrity – even if I feel you have sometimes been brainwashed! *Vettel's apparent spontaneity is often the result of his quick-mindedness and an engaging, ready smile. The truth is, in my opinion, that he is actually very calculated in this regard, but nonetheless in a likeable way; not when talking about the quality of what's on his plate but when referencing himself as a professional race driver. This is not a criticism. He's very likeable. It's just a personal reaction. [Edited several times to fix spelling, typos and syntax – and a laboured attempt to explain the asterisk bit]
A lot of the greats aren't really 'likable', not only in F1, but across other sports and even in life. That's because in reality they have to be incredibly selfish and ruthless to get to the top, and that generally doesn't fit with the mindset of us average joes. There are exceptions, but mostly they are single minded with quite a bit of a god complex. Senna is looked back on with a particular nostalgia, but he was as ruthless and as single minded as the very best of them. But that's what separates them from all the others in their era.
