I take your point and I can see it is earnest and has validity in terms of the lessons you want/we want learning from this tragedy, but rather than agreeing with you in perceiving my objection of the coverage as being an affront to my ‘squeamish sensibilities’, I want to clarify that I see it as being wholly indecent in terms of respect towards: primarily the victims (in their horrific final moments), and their families (who are denied the option of keeping such that should be allowed the highest privacy, private); and secondarily, it being way too graphic for most viewers, especially for the young - whom could suffer various psychological impacts. As you point out this one is ‘far worse’, I think a less intrusive and less illustrative style of reporting could still hammer the point home. Given the situation and the logistics, people can imagine the horror without pictures. Do you genuinely think it’s proper for the entire world to see families in their final moments screaming in terror as they await a hideous doom? Is there real progress to be made from seeing men, women and children beg for mercy as the flames grow higher? Is it right for us to see a parent’s last moments with their children? I disagree that it is right.
I have seen two clips of very distant people in windows, that is it on mainstream TV, beyond that it is graphic filming of a burning building. In my opinion that is newsworthy and informative journalism. Warnings are given prior to all sensitive showings. I disagree that people can imagine what really occurred, not all can and the coverage informs and gives weight to public anger and concern. We see the suffering of thousands in the final stages of starvation, disease, war atrocities and other global life threatening events. What is the difference? Most of these broadcasts are used to muster much needed charity. This fire is now out, there are plenty more out there with the potential to be just as bad and I hope the coverage motivates the public to question the relevant authorities and engage in challenging dialogue that just might do some common good. Previous events and warnings have been ignored, the cross-party establishment body within parliament has been ignored, how many more events does it take? My six year old grandson was watching yesterday afternoon, he asked questions and understood people had died and others were homeless; his considered response was that he would let someone stay with him. The media is not perfect, but I think their role in this is vital.
On the Swans site re the same discussion, someone has posted a tweet that the sub contractor involved with the cladding went bust during/after the project, but is seemingly still trading with a name change..
Re the sprinklers interviewed this morning A guy called Ronnie King (Fire chief or similar) said that in Sheffield recently they had installed sprinklers in 500 flats used by OAPS at a cost of £1100 for each flat. In the case of Grenfell that would have been a cost of just over a million. You have to ask yourself, who in the council ignored the residents and signed the project off..
Why the **** is the death toll still so low? Are they trying to hide something for some reason? There is absolutely no ****ing way it is below 150, never mind ****ing 17.
just been on Look Norf about escape routes from blocks of flats..reckon that they should give residents buckets with shoots on the bottom. ppl can throw the shoot over the side and climb inside. slide down that way. simples.
because they don't see a body and count it live until bodies are recovered, and it's released to the press plus these bodies are not going to be in a intact state.. it will take a long time to count the victims and recover remains
As with 9/11 some people were never found. The intensity of the fire dictated that. It will take months, many months of DNA identification to arrive at a definitive figure of loss..
They have said that there will be people who will never be identified. I remember reading about the Bradford fire a while after and described the casualties and trying to id
They will never be able to properly identify the majority of people who perished. They are going to have to essentially guess, based on who is currently still missing. It's been nearly 3 days. To only have 17 at this point, there is something going on. If someone is still missing at this point, I hate to say it but they're dead.
Part of the problem is , is that whilst the rooms will have had residents detailed on Council Tax submissions, there will be additional people who are not on the list so to speak, visitors etc..
It's been more graphic than you've seen Fez, unfortunately. I agree with where you are coming from and your justification, I just feel it's been needlessly excessive. Also, I'm not sure whether the media share your concern, do they just want the shock/drama factor to win the ratings war. Your grandson sounds like a mature and clever kid for his age. But remember, not all kids watching will be as assured as him, nor will they have someone like you to discuss it with.
Just found this from today's Telegraph; says all that is needed and simply confirms my earlier post: "Following the fire that devastated Grenfell Tower in west London this week, leaving at least 17 dead and many more injured, questions have arisen over the cladding that was fitted to the exterior of the tower block in 2015. Angus Law, BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering at the University of Edinburgh said: "Early media reports suggest that this event has similarities with other fires that have occurred recently around the world; it appears that the external cladding has significantly contributed to the spread of fire at Grenfell Tower." What was the cladding made of? The cladding was installed by Harley Curtain Wall Ltd, which was paid £3million for the job. Company director Ray Bailey said that they had used a common Aluminium Composite Material (ACM) panels which are a commonly used product in the refurbishment industry. Why had the cladding been installed? Cladding is used in part to insulate buildings, and also in part to improve their appearance. A 2014 planning document produced ahead of the works carried out on Grenfell Tower read: “Due to its height the tower is visible from the adjacent Avondale Conservation Area to the south and the Ladbroke Conservation Area to the east. “The changes to the existing tower will improve its appearance especially when viewed from the surrounding area. "The reclad materials and new windows will represent a significant improvement to the environmental performance of the building and to its physical appearance. "The design of the scheme as a whole has fully considered policy requirements, expectations and aspirations, fully taking into consideration the immediate and wider surroundings, particularly focussing on creating a wider environment that works as a coherent place." How might cladding have contributed to the spread of fire? Experts said that the cladding could act like a "chimney" for the flames by allowing the fire to spread upwards through the gaps between the cladding and the building walls. Geoff Wilkinson, managing director of Wilkinson Construction Consultants, wrote in the Daily Telegraph: "These plastic or metal panels are installed to protect a building from weather or improve its appearance, but between them and the wall there is a cavity where rain can run down. "In the event of a fire this acts like a chimney, drawing the hot air up through itself and making the flames burn brighter. In this way fire [travels] all the way up from the base of the building to the very top. "Once spread via cladding, the fire could have caught on curtains blowing through windows left open on a hot summer’s night." Click to view : Grenfell Tower fire Has cladding been associated with other fires? Matthew Needham-Laing, an architect who is head of construction at Katten Law UK, said that the first known cladding fire in the UK was in 1991 and there had been concerns in the industry about its fire safety for a number of years. He said: "This is not a shock, the problems with cladding have been known about and talked about for a number of years and hopefully this will at least make people listen." Mr Wilkinson said: "In Knowsley Heights in Manchester in 1991, fire spread in a way no one had predicted via the decorative cladding on the outside of the building. "Something similar happened in Irvine in 1999, after which new regulations were put out which limited the types of cladding which could be used." There have been fires which spread in high-rise buildings in France, the UAE and Australia that had similar cladding, according to the BBC's Newsnight programme. Click to view : Graphic: Grenfell Tower fire damage How many other buildings have similar cladding? There are thought to be in the region of 30,000 buildings in the UK fitted with cladding similar to that on Grenfell Tower Will there be a review into use of cladding? Mike Penning, a former fire minister, has called for an urgent review, saying "We need to expedite this as far as possible - this cladding is used extensively in the UK and abroad." Nick Hurd, the fire minister, said that checks are now being carried out on tower blocks that are going through a similar refurbishment process as Grenfell Tower."
Was it on mainstream ITV, BBC,as that is all I have watched. Go beyond that and nothing surprises me. Press the off button is my advice. The media work in the media world, it's their job and is subject to adequate regulation, in my opinion. I think most kids would not have taken too much notice, they will be too busy annihilating fantasy enemies on their gadgets. (Tongue firmly in cheek) I remember, as a kid, watching All Our Yesterdays and then later, The World at War; they were harrowing in parts and excellent. I don't think they did me or any other kid any harm - quite the opposite.
