Not sure anyone mentioned visiting every pub in Scotland - unless that is what you are saying you have done. I and friends have visited a few and guess what the talk was about? Glad you are a teacher - perhaps not a good one as you did not know the SNP had 56 not 54 seats. However you are quite right and it is nearer a third. So to say the SNP lost over a third of their seats is so much more encouraging than nearly half is it?. Have you calculated the percentage lost by TM? I make it less than 4%. SNP vote down to less than 37% with the despised Tories up to nearly 29% and even Labour 27%. Not so much of a gap now is there? Shall we have a bet on whether NS still dares risking calling a referendum? 2020 is just three years away - let's see how many MSPs the SNP have then shall we as there is no chance of a referendum before that. If both the SF and DUP abstain from UK voting the Tories have 318 MPs while all others combined could only get 314 so in fact the Tory minority government still gets the majority.
No you didn't specifically mention visiting every pub in Scotland - but you did state that the talk in pubs in Scotland is... which gives that quite clear implication. If you research properly you'll find that SNP actually only had 54 sitting members prior to the election, not 56. Ergo, they certainly did lose 19. As to Sinn Fein abstaining - I wouldn't bet on that. They are already discussing DUP's involvement in Westminster as a threat to the Good Friday Agreement.
The missing two are under police investigations for fraud so lost the whip. Another MP was also under investigation for professional misconduct but has been chucked out anyway by the electorate.
Semantics. There were 56 SNP MPs after the last election - the fact that two lost the whip is not relevant. Perhaps NS should have withdrawn the whip from 25 so she could claim an increase in MPs - a victory!! Please tell me that my experience and that of my friends and family is not typical of pubs in Scotland then - have you found otherwise? Of course I did not imply what you inferred - I said what I experienced - the idea I was speaking for every pub in Scotland is laughable. (but I bet if I could have visited them I would have found much the same as I experienced unless you think Scots did not care how many seats the SNP lost. I would bet on SF abstaining. £10 says they will continue to do so. The loser pays to a charity of the winner's choice (a non political one of course) The DUP have often voted with the Conservatives for years; it is only now that it is an issue. Either way 318 trumps 314.
Is someone pays for it I am quite willing to travel to every pub in Scotland - and then I can come back and say '' The man in the pub thinks......''. I'm open to offers.
Every LibDem supporter with an ounce of political acumen knows that their day in the sun ended the minute the PLDP formed a coalition to prop up the tories. Had they made arrangements with Brown they would still be a minority party but they would be more credible. I said at the time was political suicide to do what they did and that it would take 20+ years to get back to where they were. I wager that the PCP are now making that same mistake, although the larger fan base will soften the blow considerably. Ulster politics are generally two extremes: SF and the DUP, deeply divided on sectarian lines it bears no relation to mainland politics. There are no circumstances that such a coalition can be countenanced by any right minded person. Anymore than if they had formed a coalition with the BNP, the NF or Oswald Moseley's black shirts. Make no mistake, the DUP are christian fascists: a bunch of women's rights hating (ironically led by a woman), scientifically illiterate, buybull thumping, clockstopping idiots. There can be no justification for this crackpot alliance.
It most certainly is relevant - two years ago they had 56, at this election they had 54. That is not semantics, that's plain Maths. I'm not the one claiming that it is typical of pubs in Scotland, you did that, without the rider of 'in my experience'. But yes, I have found otherwise - strangely enough across Aberdeenshire and Moray. Perhaps it's because, in my experience up here, politics is not particularly a topic of choice in pubs, and is actually banned in a few. As these threads tend to prove, it can be too divisive. Of course it's an issue - the DUP have never been in such a powerful position before, a position in which a weak leader like May will give in to who knows what, to the detriment of the rest of us. And 318 is only a majority if they all sing from the same hymn sheet. It's quite obvious already that differing opinions exist within Tory ranks - throw into the mix the fact that Tory ranks include LGBT and Catholic MPs and it's easy to see that hymn sheet being torn up.
The maths says last time they had 56 elected and this time 35 - a drop of 21. The fact the SNP suspended two does not alter that. I said nothing about typical pubs and if someone talks about what is being said in pubs most normal people would not jump to the conclusion they had visited every pub in Scotland but were referring to what they knew about -i.e. pubs they had visited or heard about. I have never experienced a ban on talking politics in any Scottish pub. If you seriously think that the disaster for the SNP at this election is not a talking point then I am not the man to enlighten you. Suddenly everyone is an expert on the DUP despite them having been around for years. The Tories do not have to share their views on everything - just to see what they have in common - and that clearly does not include anti gay weddings etc. They and Sinn Fein have shared power in Northern Ireland for years - can you point me to a single post on this board criticising them before yesterday?
Rather an unjust observation at the end Ed. We have never had any reason to talk about the DUP until now, and any thread started about them would have had little response. Actually, we know very little about Northern Irish politics - so I expect that many people are reading up about the DUP. for the first time. But many know something about the Orange Lodge and many of their members are also in the DUP. including some of their MPs.
The DUP and SF have to talk to each other. That the DUP will likely have significant influence on the rest of the U.K. is beyond a travesty: the tail is wagging the dog...
Ok - agreed - but the point I was clumsily making is that everyone is now an expert on the DUP - good old wikipaedia. I tried to look at their website but it had crashed due to others doing the same. Do not get me wrong - everything I read about them is horrible. However they have been around and voting in the UK for years - they were not voting with Labour. I could make a cheap point about others having friends who might not be admired too but it would be inflammatory so I will refrain. I do not blame the Tories for forming a government and so long as they do not compromise on issues like gay weddings then it is a bit rich to suggest that instead they let Labour form a government which they would hate.
It most certainly does - you can't change the fact that they went into this election with 54 MPs. Most normal people would actually have qualified that statement when they initially made it. Just because you have not experienced such a ban doesn't mean that they don't exist Actually, along with many, I don't view it as a disaster. The fact remains that, not only are the SNP still the majority party in Scotland, they are also still the third largest in UK. And the reasons for losing the seats that they did are well documented. Despite?? As they have been around for years, of course people are going to know a lot about them, assuming they have taken the bother to research. That should be especially true in Scotland where more have experienced first hand the hatred and violence that they espouse. I'm not particularly aware that NI politics have been the subject of much discussion on this board at all, so doubt there are too many posts to point out for you, critical of otherwise.
You cannot change the fact that they dropped 21 seats from the number last elected. When you talk about what you hear in pubs it is not normal to qualify how many you have visited and you certainly do not assume someone thinks you have been to them all. Fine so perhaps a ban exists - what point does that make? All my SNP friends are crying in their beer and the Unionist friends are laughing their heads off. If you are happy then so am I. Losing so badly is OK then is it - so why do you think TM's losses are a disaster? The SNP have peaked and are now going downhill fast. I agree - that is not a disaster - but a bonus. Forget the DUP - there is not a coalition - the Tories held on just. (not that personally I am happy about that).
While I was on holiday this year I met up with a young couple and their little girl who was about to have her first birthday. David came from Dublin, but his wife was English. David's father is a farmer close to the border, and buys and sells in both north and south Ireland, while David works in Reading in a high tec company. His company is shortly going to move to Dublin as most of their sales are in the EU, something he was looking forward to as he will be closer to his family. His wife was also looking forward to the move as she enjoyed a less stressful life. Over a glass or two, we discussed the problems with the failed N. Ireland Assembly, and we had little doubt that it was vital if the peace was to remain that a solution to the disagreements had to be found. The Westminster government has a crucial role in bringing SF and the DUP together, something that they didn't seem to be putting any effort into. I am not sure how you can take the side of one party because you need their support to help you cling to office, and then make it look to the other side you do not have favourites.
When you say 'together' surely you are asking too much. At best you might stop them killing one another. Religious people, despite what they say, are often, not always, extremely intolerant. Certainly extremely entrenched. I think the focus needs to be placed on raising a new generation who can be open minded and think for themselves. And if you achieve that it will still take a long time to filter through. The conservatives are very close to the thinking of the DUP so surely the DUP have always been the favourites. The only good thing about this is that SF see this ending in tears so I doubt that in reality they are very unhappy about it. Might be more a matter of bring it on. OFH you seem to be using common-sense, open mindedness, fairness, and thinking of the benefit of all mankind. But these people think they are special, different, more worthy, treated unfairly, .............. Chalk and cheese. Talking of cheese o to be in France
I think that we can debate for hours about exactly who won and who lost this election. Labour can pat themselves on the back about winning 30 more seats in Parliament, and being 'back in the frame', but may secretly feel that more was possible. The Tories called an unnecessary election and failed to achieve their goal in doing so - as a result they have been forced into a shady coalition (because this election has forced into sharp relief that they have a distinct lack of possible coalition partners) - they also have a discredited leader who, with the Brexit negotiations around the door, they will find difficult to replace. But, they increased their share of the vote. The Lib Dems hoped to use the Brexit issue to get back into business but, found the young remainers flocking to Labour instead - but they did still gain 4 seats from a low base. Big losers are Ukip (because the hard right of the Tory Party have taken over their colours - but, they could re emerge under certain circumstances, and the Greens, who are struggling with the 'Corbyn' syndrome but still retained their only seat. It may also be the case for the Greens that they do not have the economic resources for so many election campaigns in quick succession - but, Caroline Lucas increased her majority. At first glance the SNP clearly lost - but they were operating from an artificially high base of seats borrowed from Labour. If anyone had said 12 years ago that they would have 30 seats now then they would have bitten your hands off for that. So, all in all, no great winners, and no great losers. Labour has a platform to build on with a leader who now has more support than at any time since becoming leader (or rather the Blairites have been temporarily forced into silence).
Another nail in May's coffin? DUP 'deal' announced before agreement has even been reached. http://news.sky.com/story/dup-and-c...deal-on-minority-government-alliance-10911773
Seems political suicide IMO..... As you quite rightly say any religious party harbours fanaticism and a peculiar nationalism... mix religion and politics and you get sparks. I see on FB that there has been an orange march in Liverpool this w/e and the Ulstermen have attacked Irish pubs....
Sadly until the enormous number, I'd say majority, who are atheists stand up and say no to this loonesy it will continue. I'm as guilty at most. I'm too tolerant and only politely argue with those who dare to peddle their fantasy at my door. I tend to feel sory for them and send them on their way with a smile. Sadly in my life time I will not see the end of it. But until my death I will remain baffled how anyone with half an education can believe this stuff (I'm talking about the literalists). Either they are liars or I'm missing just how evil god can be. Don't get me wrong I'm not against spiritulism or personal belief but the fantasy of the organised religious power groups that they are the chosen ones is beyond belief (sic). And sadly I will say no more because I don't like offending people and maybe that is the problem. As the great Dave Alen always said "May your god go with you"
