Kinnock chucked the socialist workers and Trotskyist out of the Labour. Cameron should have done that with his eurosceptics as the good name of the Conservative party is now irrevocably damaged in the eyes of the world (except England)
Unless "socialist workers" and "Trotskyist" is equivalent to Eurosceptic, you have not answered my specific question. "the good name of the Conservative party is now irrevocably damaged in the eyes of the world" Debatable whether the Conversative party had a "good name" in the years prior to the referendum being offered or its actual result.
To some maybe. PS I am not a Tory voter but no one has taken that party to task for caving in to eurosceptism. As for your point about throwing people out of a political party because of their eurosceptism, I was drawing parallels with Kinnocks actions with regard to the extreme left in the late 80s and Cameron's response to extremism in his own party. Eurosceptism is a phenomena that is associated with the likes of AfD, with the French NF, with the Dutch Freedom Party, with UKIP ... all parties of the right and far right, so eurosceptsm is an element of extremism that has invaded the Tory party for the past generation and was not dealt with.
Because Eurosceptism is a trait associated with unsavoury political elements, does not itself make it an unsavoury trait. IMHO that should be self-evident with the example of Tony Benn (I could have chosen other veteran Labour figures - David Owen, Peter Shore etc) .
Saudi Arabia has cut ties with Qatar due to their links with Islamist groups Isn't that like the US cutting their ties to the UK because they think their leader is a ****ing idiot?
I'm trying to pour dirt on the Conservatives and as they are the Government with responsibility they need to be taken to task for their extremiism. If Labour are returned on Friday, we can see what they will do with extremists within their ranks but until they come to power we can't. As for the figures you have highlighted, all three were largely an irrelavance by the time Tony Blair became leader and the bulk of the Labout party towed the line. While Tony Benn has to be respected for his intelligent constructive arguments I cannot really say much about Peter Shore or David Owen. Thank you for engaging RDBD and not totally dissing things I have typed.
It's emerging that the reason for Saudi Arabia cutting ties with Qatar, to the point that they are giving Qatari nationals just two weeks to leave Saudi Arabia, is less to do with the obvious smokescreen of terror funding and more to do with the Qatari-based al-Jazeera hurting Saudi Arabia's feelings due to describing Iran as an "Islamic power" as well as being critical of Trump's policy towards Tehran, which led to Saudi Arabia blocking al-Jazeera from their airwaves last week. So let me get this straight: Saudi Arabia are acting in a manner that looks remarkably like they are prepared to go to war with Qatar because al-Jazeera reported something that the Saudi leaders didn't like, even though what they reported happens to be true? Doesn't that sound more than a little bit completely ****ing insane?
The problem with the EU is that it is a annoying little trading group, which has asperations above it's station and seriously top heavy management. It take one or two people from each country to do one persons job, i.e. 27 or 54 people to carry out the work of one person, which means it's run by a bunch of freeloaders who don't take kindly to a challenge. Many of those freeloaders support greater intergration, i.e. more power to the elite freeloading classes. One could argue that without a single exchequer, the currency union is madness, it is of course for the poorer and less efficient countries, as it negates the opportunity for them to devalue their currency to reduce their labour costs and the costs of their products abroad. For the better developed economies like Germany, it has the distinct advantage of keeping their currency artificially low giving them an unfair advantage in world market places. No surprises Mrs Lardyarse is a fervent EU supporter. Others might argue that it has kept the peace in Europe since WWII, I can't argue with that, during the period that the EU/EEC has existed there have not been any Europe wide wars, but having said that, I doubt if there would have been any Europe wide wars anyway. The cold war with the USSR made a central European war pretty unlikely. Fight each other and you would soon be over-run by a Bear with a sore head heading west at the first possible opportunity. Freedom of movement is an interesting one, to me a country ought to be able to chose who enters and who does not, otherwise whats the point of a border? A border is a bit like putting a fence around ones house so you can invite people that you want to see and keep out the uninvited. Not such a bad idea, we have been doing this for centuries. Is there anyone out there who leaves their garage door wide open in case their neighbour, or any one else for that matter, wants to borrow their tool kit or have a quick snack from their freezer? Laws, rules and regulations also need to be local. So many local issues affect why laws are made, climate, geology, latitude, altitude etc. Let's face it, we have different building regulations in most counties in the UK because conditions differ. What works in one country may not be the best way of doing something or even may not work, or cause serious issues in another country. IMHO we all need to respect each other, help each other, support each other and enjoy the cultural differences, not try to turn everyone into a cardboard cut-out of Mr Median Euro-man.
Going to war is totally insane agreed. However, Saudi Arabia is their country and they ought to be able to do exactly as they chose in their own country. That's the point of having a border. If that includes getting rid of all Qatari nationals, so be it. The truth is an aside, it has nothing to do with Saudi soverinty.
Fair comment. "IMHO we all need to respect each other, help each other, support each other and enjoy the cultural differences, not try to turn everyone into a cardboard cut-out of Mr Median Euro-man." Do you think the Leave result will be the catalyst for the EU to become what it should be, rather than fundamentally remain as is ??
Uganda is also its own country, but that did not give Idi Amin the right to expel tens of thousands of India and seize their assets under the guise of making Uganda great again, so what right to Saudi Arabia have to expel thousands of people because they got upset at something reported on al-Jazeera? They don't, which is why they're racially abusing the kettle with this talk of links with terror groups.
I hope it makes the leaders think. Change is needed. The route the UK takes via our exit may provide a road map for partial dissolution of all that is wrong with the EU. Obviously the freeloading elite will fight tooth and nail to keep what they have got, the change has to come from country leaders, which will probably be driven by their electorate. Clearly historically, the IMF bail-outs have provided a sticky plaster, which has kept the European monetry union together. However, sticky plasters don't last forever. The IMF should butt out of Euro related issues and either let the richer economies bail out the lesser ones or let the Euro collapse. Once the German electorate understand that to keep their unfair advantage in worldwide trade, by having an undervalued currency, they have to contribute to Greek and Italian pensions and social care, they will have a choice to make. I quite like the idea of a European free trade zone, but it doesn't need a parliament and it certainly doesn't need a high court in order to facilitate tarif free trade.
Uganda is/was a very different case. Expelling is one thing,that was his right. Seizing assets is theft of which Amin was guilty. Prior to Idi Amin, it was very easy to just arrive and set up business in Uganda, as it is now. If you could imagine the UK with a totally open border and people being able to choose whether to register or not register for tax, that is what they had then. Chaos. Something had to change and Idi Amin took a pretty draconian route. If you've been to Uganda recently, a similar thing is happening, although most of the foreigners have learnt their lesson from the Idi Amin era and are very quick to register for income tax and other business taxes. It was not the case then. Indians, Chinese and business minded Eritreans run much of the Ugandan ecomomy nowadays. It is an absolutely fantastic place. Kigali is my favourite city in the world but Kampala and Nairobi are not far behind.
do you think the Qataris who are in Saudi Arabia have no assets or businesses there? What do you think will happen to those?
Some will, some won't. I would hope that anything that can be carried, i.e. gold, currency or other valubles they will be able to leave with and in the longer term, businesses can be sold or local manager be installed. I have worked in many foreign countries, but I look at myself as a guest. If I am asked to leave I will leave. No gripes. Yes I own a property in one particular country and it is unlikely that I would sell it. I'd rather not say why (5th Amendment) but it was bought for a purpose and not as an investment. If I lose it due to a governmental decision, so be it. I won't cry over spilt milk.
Very true. The Spanish can't believe it, they think we're nuts. Cameron is a total ****. He put the economic future of the nation on the line to try and quell an intra-party dispute. He lost his bet, and now the UK will suffer.
That was part of the remain argument, directly or implied. However the EU is not and has never been a military alliance and does not have any armed forces. These "good things" attributed to the EU should all instead by attributed to NATO, and organisation that we remain members of regardless of our relationship with the EU. There may be plans somewhere down the line for an EU military force, but that would be one more step IMHO for the creation of a European State. Ironically I think that our withdrawal may have curbed, at least for now, some of the worst excesses of that organisation.
The reason that the EU may have contributed to peace in Europe is nothing to do with united armed forces, it is because it is a vehicle for leaders to get together and talk. Talking and agreeing or agreeing to disagree avoids a fight. However, there is no reason why european leaders cant get together and talk without an EU. The idea of a Euro Army is frightening, the world does not need another superpower, particularly run by a freeloading Euro Politburo out of Brussels. What happens when Putin decides to cut off the supply of Vodka and Caviar to Tusk and Co? Do they decide to test the size of Putins testicles by trying to liberate the Crimea? Too much power for any one person is no good. Look at Zimbabwe and the DRC.
Is it possible for Theresa May to answer the question she's asked? Just once, perhaps, to prove she can do it.
