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Off Topic The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Queens Park Rangers' started by Stroller, Jun 25, 2015.

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

Poll closed Jun 24, 2016.
  1. Stay in

    56 vote(s)
    47.9%
  2. Get out

    61 vote(s)
    52.1%
  1. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    I agree that it's difficult to envisage a situation where we may be forced to use a first strike option, but in such a dangerous World and with nutters like Kim Jong on the scene, I want us to have every possible option at our disposal.

    The World could look very different in the coming years, especially with that idiot Trump in charge of the US. He could easily leave everyone to their own devises where defence is concerned as he is so inward looking.
    We may not be able to say "oh well, the US will take care of any nuclear threat". I think we need our own deterrent.

    I would absolutely hate it if we were ever forced to use them, but I think that having nuclear weapons makes it less likely that anyone else will.
    I'd like every nuclear weapon on this planet destroyed, but that ain't gonna happen, plus if it did, Russia would be the most powerful State on earth.
     
    #11021
  2. KooPeeArr

    KooPeeArr Well-Known Member

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    Sounds interesting but still, for me, far fetched. While the prospect of Russia invading a country is very real, the idea of them planning to use nukes still doesn't because it would turn their war into a nuclear one which gives their homeland a much more immediate risk. It's such a huge psychological line to cross and doesn't benefit the aggressor to speculate in those terms. They would face less of a challenge using standard millitary means (with a NATO army being used as a last resort and political pressure and sanctions, for what they're worth, as a first wave, ineffective though that may be).

    France (they still have a capability don't they?) would have to be completely passive too.

    Russia do seem like a genuine threat to stability (it seems like Putin's been a God in his own mind long enough to get bored domestically and start scheming on a global level) but they would operate on as subversive level as possible to avoid deniability and all out war.

    I can, partially, understand us not disarming altogether and giving the next government the option. I also accept we're not in stable enough times for all countries to feel safe enough to start widespread nuclear disarmament. Maybe in 50 years it'll end up that the security council holds a small arsenal against emerging threats but that's just a random thought.
     
    #11022
  3. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    I cant see anyone sorting the racial tensions out mate due to too many liberals and political correctness. And yes i know Corbyn is very liberal in these matters but I'm not voting on these issues. I'm voting as a working class family man with a disabled wife who uses the NHS due to her illness on a regular basis and sees the absolute decline in it. My sister and her husband are both nurses although the latter is quitting to manage a coffee shop due to a pay increase which says it all. My brother is a teacher as I've mentioned before. I've quit the job I loved with a passion and now do it on an evening basis due to financial restraints. The Tories offer me no reason to vote for them. Labour do UKIP do Lib Dems do. Won't be voting for the last two!!! I do however respect everyone's right to vote and try yet sometimes fail not to influence others . Thats the job of the politicians
     
    #11023
    BobbyD and rangercol like this.
  4. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    I also think the Tories will win. Their campaign has been nothing short of hilarious. Labour's is full of promises yet many manifestos promise what can't be delivered. Should settle it in a match at loftus road! No left or right wingers allowed.
     
    #11024
    rangercol likes this.
  5. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    The usual fayre then...:grin:
     
    #11025
    bobmid likes this.
  6. TheBigDipper

    TheBigDipper Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I know. I didn't understand what you were on about until I saw my bad editing. Sorry!
     
    #11026
  7. TheBigDipper

    TheBigDipper Well-Known Member

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    Genuine mistake, not deliberate misquoting. Apology offered without reservation.
     
    #11027
  8. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Let's hope you are right. Think the scenario was that NATO troops were engaged with Russian troops in Lithuania (who had gone in to 'protect' Russian speakers') and were winning and had perhaps crossed into Russian territory (perhaps inadvertently, can't quite remember,frustration resulting from age), and Putin facing internal pressure has to demonstrate 'strength'. The whole thing relies on the level headedness of leaders and willingness of their subordinates to carry out their orders. Very fragile.
     
    #11028
  9. bobmid

    bobmid Well-Known Member

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    Just nuke everyone.......erm on second thoughts. Seriously though, if we are even contemplating pushing the button on anyone then it's game over anyways regardless of who's in no.10
     
    #11029
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  10. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    I had missed the Tory manifesto pledges on the military. According to The Times it is to 'maintain the overall size of the armed forces'. They have dropped the promise to maintain the army at 82,000 (which they have failed to deliver on). Senior military officers and MoD officials are interpreting this as a further cut to the size of the army, to perhaps 65,000, as the navy and RAF are seriously under recruited, they haven't got enough people to run the kit they have.

    As I have posted before, the Tory manifesto is a startlingly bleak and honest document. It anticipates continuing austerity (presumably because of the impact of Brexit) and a renewed emphasis on reducing the deficit as the main government priority. I'm betting taxes will go up, but we won't see anything in return for it in terms of public services, all debt servicing.
     
    #11030
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2017

  11. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    I am totally against the further cuts in our armed forces, although there is a case for smaller fighting capabilities in the times we live in.

    My instinct is that Labour wouldn't be too keen to bolster our armed forces though.
     
    #11031
  12. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    If I have understood Corbyn correctly we would never be sending soldiers anywhere so might as well scale down to a Home Guard.
     
    #11032
  13. kiwiqpr

    kiwiqpr Barnsie Mod

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    So you don't know who you will be voting for but you already know who you won't be voting for
     
    #11033
  14. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Apparently Amber Rudd was 'aristocracy coordinator' for the film Four Weddings and a Funeral because her family were so well connected to dukes and earls. She got her mates (including her parents) paid £100 a day for larking around in the wedding reception scenes.

    Just about managing.
     
    #11034
  15. Sooperhoop

    Sooperhoop Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough, no problem...
     
    #11035
  16. Steelmonkey

    Steelmonkey Well-Known Member

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    Did you see Deutschland 83 on C4 last year.....following a East German spy within the High Command at NATO, and only just managing to prevent a nuclear war? Only fictional, but it showed how close we could have come to mutual destruction.

    In an ideal world, we wouldn't need a nuclear deterrant, and, as has been previously stated, we are hardly likely to drop a nuke on ISIS, as that would only remove one head of the hydra, but there are still a few rogue nations that have nuclear capabilities. Trident is a big financial commitment, whoever is in charge, and locally to me (I can see the lights of Faslane and Coulport at night from my window, and often see the subs being escorted down the Clyde) the bases are a big employer. I don't fully understand why we have to replace Trident with something that is going to cost billions whilst we have a huge defecit in our budget, money that could be spent on NHS, education and conventional Armed Forces, but both Labour and Tories have committed to it. Is Trident defunct now (or in the near future), is the technology obsolete? Would the missiles not fly if required? Can the submarines be retro-fitted to reduce costs? I seem to remember us having Polaris prior to Trident, so it can't be too long ago that the system was already upgraded.
     
    #11036
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  17. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    Our Foreign Secretary and Brexit negotiator......

     
    #11037
  18. rangercol

    rangercol Well-Known Member

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    A little unfair.
     
    #11038
  19. sb_73

    sb_73 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't resist mate. It's an interesting factlet though isn't it?
     
    #11039
  20. Stroller

    Stroller Well-Known Member

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    A new poll of 18 to 24 year-olds registered to vote gives Labour a 52 point lead. Not a surprise, I suppose, that Labour would be more popular with young voters, but that is an astonishing lead for Corbyn. It's looking more and more likely that turnout will decide the outcome. If young people get off their arses, we could get a surprise result. The most recent Ipsos Mori poll was declared as a 5 point lead for the Tories, but that was after adjusting for likelihood to vote. The raw data had a 3 point lead for Labour.
     
    #11040

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