Match Day Thread 2016/17 Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

Yep - it's all about context. Given our state over the past decade, getting CL is a massive achievement. But this should just be the start. I want more than just 4th spot next year ...

 

"Well little Harry Spurs weren't always the biggest club in North London. There used to be a club called the Arsenal, but it was run into the ground by a stubborn owner and manager who preferred to pay themselves the biggest bonuses in world football rather than buy players, until after 20 years Spurs finally overtook them and never looked back. Mind you, they won a pot that year. Should have sacked Wenger during the post-match interview same as the previous year's winners had done."

 

Exactly.

 

We got third. It was top three for CL back then

 

and your point is? (pedantic as it was in the first place )

 

And what if competing in the CL has a negative effect on your league form due to the lack of quality in depth, and you finish outside the top 4 next season? What was the point and the 'massive achievement' if that's how it pans out?

 

That you were wrong, as you finished 3rd not 4th...

 

We didn't get fourth; aka, you were wrong to say we did

Apology accepted btw

 

Of course this is all theoretical but the logic is sound.

Get CL, attract better players, leads to a better squad.

But as mentioned, getting top 4 is pointless if we don't progress enough to lead to trophies. One of CL qualification isn't good enough, we need to be in it consistently so it becomes the norm and not an achievement.

 

The more money = better players = more success, argument I get to a point

However, I think winning pots breeds a winning mentality and can be a springboard to further success

 

We won the league cup under Kenny - didn't make a difference...

But I do agree - winning breeds winning. The last thing I want is to become an Arsenal where top 4 is a massive achievement year in year out. We need to use CL qualification to help us build a team to ultimately win trophies down the line.

Winning the league cup is great for short term. consistent CL is crucial for long term

 

tbh that's what happened last time with Rogers. Sold the best player and failed to re-invest the money from the sale and failed to use CL to get the right players and depth in the squad. Went on to have a poor season that would eventually cost BR his job.

Thats part of the risk, but you've got to take that risk if you want to try to win things. Whats the point in the game if you settle for safety, isn't it boring just being an also-ran.
You take the 'massive achievement' in the hope that leads to bigger and better. And obviously you hope that the transfer window before next season to address playing in both competitions.

I'd rather have CL than not

 

The thing is, the CL isn't about winning anything for 90% of the teams in it, it's simply about cash. Most enter that competition knowing they've zero realistic chance of winning it.

 

True, but most of those teams who have zero chance of winning use the money to go on to win their domestic league (or at least have a run at it). Use the money and the prestige right and there is potential to win other things.

 

Aye, I suppose so. I'd love us to play in it, but I also know we'd be also rans if we did.

 

Think there is a different feel to being an also-ran in the CL and being one in your own league. Theres still a sense of achievement in that you are playing the best in Europe, even if you do lose. Its the only reason Celtic are even relevant.
Frankly I don't expect much from Liverpool in the CL next season, we should qualify and I'd hope for 1st KO round, but we're coming from a long way behind compared to the teams around Europe, so group stage might be it (maybe with EL)

 

Interesting argument.

Let's accept for a minute the premise that attaining the CL will get better players and then these can help win more trophies.

So 4th -> CL -> better players-> Win cups and league

With cups being the final desired outcomes why is getting into the CL better than winning the FA cup (or the EFL or Europa)?

The potential paradox also is that the CL does introduce more matches, injuries, tiredness which will affect the premiership and domestic cup form. So instead of progress in the premiership there is a decline in form. Of course, the management will be aware of that and will do everything to mitigate that by buying more top quality players.

Our history indicates that our CL seasons tend to be followed by worse ones. I have no doubt that Chelsea won the premiership easily because they didn't have European football. They will find it significantly harder next season having to do both.

Ultimately I agree with those who say that the CL will only be meaningful if we recruit significantly to challenge in it and the premiership.

 

You forgot the ending of that story.

Yes little harry it took us another 20 years after that but we finally won a charity shield after losing the fa cup final to the league champions that year and so now our trophy cabinat actually has silverware.

 

I'm sure you'll find that we've all said that this is only a start, and now we have to kick on from here.

 

Wonder if Gunners fans still want Wenger out after he outsmarted Conte tactically yesterday