But maybe the, we condemn, but, is simply them accepting that it's completely wrong, but understanding why the extremists are managing to recruit from within the Muslim community. I can see both sides of this now tbh, my view has been changed over the last year or so.
It's your argument! You're the one saying that today's youth are somehow different. Can you honestly debate anything?
Yes, it's quite simple. It's the global exportation of terrorism. It's not difficult to understand, and is one of ISIS's stated aims.
I asked how far back are you talking. You failed to give an answer, so I offered two time periods where it was clearly different. You haven't disagreed with either, merely offered some comment on depending on status, which is still an agreement that it was different. Your go.
I think it may have gone too far, mate. As I said earlier, ISIS's stated aim is a global caliphate. They see the starting of a war in Europe as the first step to a global war against the unbelievers. Naturally they're convinced this is a war they will win and thus achieve their aims. I really don't believe that even if all hostilities ceased in the Middle East tomorrow, that ISIS would stop what they're doing.
Maybe, but it rarely comes over that way, especially as it usually includes a distancing of themselves from the apparently extreme versions of the religion, but that occurs within their communities here. I'd say that puts them in a good position to be looking at the solutions, and would help in what some feel is a self inflicted victim mentality. The wars and troubles abroad are an excuse, rather than the justification. We're not at war with Islam, but some Islamist want to be at war with us, and even more can't seem to decide which side they're on.
You're the one making the claim. It's different now, apparently. You need to define what that's opposed to, not me. You claimed that it was different in two particular time periods. You didn't show that this claim was accurate. People have made this same bullshit claim for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. The youth of today are lazy, feckless, narcissistic and entitled. Are they? Prove it. There's an old, supposed quote from Socrates that's probably not true, but it demonstrates the point: "The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers." It's probably not accurate, but it dates back to at least the 1950s. It's a lazy argument that doesn't appear to have any basis in truth, ironically.
What the likes of you forget is that the likes of me, mid 40's born Muslims living in Britain from birth or a very young age, had never heard of Islamic fundamentalism until about the same time as you did We still had views on Palestine and Iraq and Syria, because contrary to popular opinion we didn't just start speaking of Saddam when he was killed but waaay before when the **** was put into power by the western government's. This isn't a slight in the average western population, never has been Not only did we speak out but we (we being Muslims) warned you that it would be a ticking time bomb.
If it makes you happy to think there's some reality in that, just fill your boots. You've looked for something to try to grasp, and make an argument of. You think you've found something. I disagree, but it's such a pointless debate, you feel free to believe what you wish. I think the reason for this thread could perhaps help you appreciate why I don't see it as important enough to argue with you over.
When the last time Israel bombed the Palestinians there was a moment when a reporter was in the streets talking to the Palestinian kids, channel 4 news iirc. As he was talking a noise was heard in the background a boom (for want of a better word) the reporter who was in gear as in helmet, vest etc literally hit the ground and was panicky. The moment was the reaction of the kids, not a single **** was given. A lazy look in the direction of the noise and a sort of amusement at the reporters reaction All I thought was if these kids are the soldiers/terrorists of tomorrow the world is ****ed. This wasn't a join the army campaign and then a couple of years of training this was life and bombs and bullets were their iPad and ps4
That might be true if you didn't do this with everyone on every thread. But you do. Not sure why you bother, to be honest.
Same argument could be made and said the global state sponsored terrorism in the name of Democracy in various parts of the world led by the West and hence making it a breeding ground for terrorism, even sponsoring them... For example in Libya, we sponsored and armed groups to get rid of Gaddafi and they have turned against the West and are also killings thousands in their country and yet you still cant see why the manipulation might happen? This isn't Islamic problem that you keep banging on about, its a Muslim and west problem, this is in the minority otherwise you would have 1.8 billion suicide bombers if this was the Islamic teaching!
