couldn't care less if you call me an apologist, not going to say yes its all the muslims fault to appease you, when we all know there are more to it then that, yours is a very simplistic view.
That's not impossible and those doing the diplomacy has to be neutral and when has that been the case?
Because of the need for money and security, plus a very divisive media. That's why we've ended up with populist demagogues doing well in politics. I don't expect anyone to watch this, but I think that this old US propaganda film from the 40s sums it up well:
Yes it has, like I said people need to be genuine in this case too...one hand you cant go on about we hate terrorists and on the other hand create and sponsor these fringe groups.
Your money issue is part of the problem when it comes to security services and policing etc too I worked in regeneration for 20 odd years and the thing that hits you is that all the agencies set up to "deal" with stuff perpetuate it as much as possible or risk losing funding and jobs Sad as that may sound policing is also about fighting for funding so the media attention this kind of incidence gets it not only suits the likes of Isis but its another blank pay cheque for SO15 and of course Kay burley gets 24 hour sky news airtime This isn't an attack on the police but the governments. These government who can find billions for Olympic pools but ex soldiers needing hydrotherapy are told to go find funding and help from charities. People love H4H but in reality they shouldn't exist as if a man fights for his country the govt owes him medical care etc not the indignity of filling in forms to get handouts from charities
The bottom line is that the War on Terror, has created more extremists than it has eradicated, and one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter. Dropping a MOAB on a cave system might wipe out a cell, but it gives fuel to the recruiters, and on we go..... As a mature multi cultural society we can't simply point the finger at the Muslim community and say sort your own out lads, it isn't that simple. If we genuinely want to move on, we need far more scrutiny of our foreign policy, and a much more open discourse within our own society. Many of these guys are British born, they're being radicalised largely on our soil, collectively we need to tackle the issue and make it plain to those who do peddle hate - on all sides - that it's not going to continue. There's an entrenchment that gets worse with every one of these atrocities and that creates an ever growing divide, which I suppose is part of the point, it needs to be reversed and the only way that'll happen is for mature debate.
Yep, it is there in black and white, and you didn't have to claim anything, but you did, and in doing that you tried to dishonestly represent my view.
This is the point most on here miss and play the blame game oh its Islamic problem simple and Muslims need to sort it out.... Far to simple to have that view and play that game, like some are doing here...
Nope, no shift of burden at all. I'm simply trying to clarify what it is you're actually trying to argue. So far, you agree that it was different generations ago, and that it exists now. Which is pretty much the same as my view.
When did I agree that it was different generations ago or that it exists in a relevant amount now? You can find examples of every attitude in every time period. So what? Is it prevalent? Do you have any evidence to suggest that it's significant?
So it's clear what you are trying to argue, are you claiming it didn't exist generations ago, and that it doesn't exist now?
And there's that attempt to reverse the burden of proof, again. You're saying that it's here, it's new and it's relevant. Prove it.
I don't think anyone is realistically suggesting that it's a problem for the muslims to sort out alone. Most seem to be trying to help by pointing out a few obvious steps that could assist, one being to stop with the, we condemn, but... line after these incidents, another would be some navel gazing for where that religion is seemingly being abused in their neighbourhood.
Nope, I'm not shifting the burden of proof (although you are desperately trying to avoid proving your own argument) we haven't got close to that stage yet, as I'm still waiting for you to define what your argument is.
