Disagree with that. Islam clearly has a role to play with regard to extremist teachings. But the west has to take some responsibility for their actions in the Middle East. This problem didn't just arise out of nothing for no reason.
Highburyal didn't share that same view, so I suppose I was primarily aiming that post at him. I agree with most of that btw, but I make those last 2 highlighted comments wrong. I'm an atheist, so why should I need to understand anyone's faith? I have no real interest in Islam, as I lump it in with all of the other religions that I think cause far more problems than they solve. My passing view on it, is that it appears to be more controlling than most other faiths, and there doesn't appear to be complete consensus on the meaning of elements of the Quran.
Fair enough, it's not an obligation and I'll get on with anyone. I just think the climate is leaving us with little options and in order to overcome this problem, we are going to have to mingle in one way or another to get a bit more comfortable with each other, for those that are not.
I am also Atheist (despite my avatar and username ). And I share your opinion that organised religion creates problems, and division. But I still find religion interesting. In my youth I would sneer at the religious (Christians and Muslims alike) and label them fools and be quite militant. But I learnt as I grew older that acceptance is the way forward, and that being angry only hurts myself.
Wouldn't that contradict the previous statement that it's more controlling? It's open to various interpretation, much like Christianity, which also doesn't have a consensus. I mean, the early followers of Christ were persecuted pacifists who were seen as a weird sect of Judaism. Only during the reign of Constantine did it become militarised to serve the interests of the Roman Empire.
Aye, I agree, but for me that's just about common decency and having respect for others irrespective of their colour or creed. Isolation is a big part of the issue, and we need to move to genuine integration in some areas.
By controlling I meant that it impinges on their life constantly, via the praying, diet, exclusions, dress, etc etc. Compared to say Christianity that needs an hour down the local Church on a Sunday to tick the box. A bit glib but do you get the point?
I find it intriguing in part. I once went to a Hindu festival for Shiva in Mauritius of all places, never seen anything like it, completely bonkers, but lovely people.
The reasons, the causes, are a whole another subject. What I'm saying is that the solution to this growing global trend of Islamic terrorism lies within Islam itself.
One thing I will say about Islam is that it definitely has more in common with the Old Testament than the New Testament. Warfare has historically been an important part of Islam from its very inception, though not the only thing. The Arabic word for peace means surrender, not the pacifistic hippy notion of peace. In the context of Islamic history it means ending conflict between warring tribes. There is a pacifist tradition in Islam called Suwarian and its obviously practiced by most Muslims living in the West as the majority just go about their business living outside the Islamic world and not making a fuss. As an atheist, Muhammad to me was just a great military general like Caesar and Alexander, and regarded as a great diplomat. The Muslim scientists, philosophers, mathematicians, doctors, historians etc. during the Islamic Golden Age interest me more than Muhammad's and his successors' military feats.
But it doesn't just lie within Islam itself, that's the point. You're trying to pigeonhole it saying 'It's a Muslim problem', when in fact the issue is entwined within the context of the West's actions in the Middle east, the racial tensions towards Muslims in the UK, coupled with the social disenfranchisement that many young men of ethnicity experience in the west. That is a wider problem that cannot simply be solved by Islam alone. It is naive to assume that it can be, and it is dangerous to ignore the wider context of why these problems have come about in the first place.
I agree ... but the 'demonisation' of Islam in the west partly stems from the fact that the extremeists hold a view that Sharia law will some day govern the entire world and that the 'holy war' will be the catalyst that acheives that ... the "white man" had a similar ethos in regard to to native americans and 'maifest destiny' ... the reality is that the internet and advances in science and technology (not to mention more inter racial cross faith relationships stemming from globalisation) will inevitably make for a more secular world in the generations to come ... extremeists and fundamentalist of all shapes, colours and creeds are scared ****less by that prospect .. but it's coming, it is inevitable ... it's just a question of how long it takes to get there.
I totally disagree. There is nothing we can do to stop ISIS recruiters. Impressionable young Muslims pissed off with what has happened in the Middle East are not going to listen to anything we have to say. They have to hear their own leaders saying very clearly that the hate preachers are corruptors of the faith. The disenfranchisement of the young is not an exclusive young Muslim problem. That is shared by a large number of the young in today's Britain. ISiS's clearly stated aim is a global caliphate. They envisage this will be brought about by spreading their doctrine and attacks into Europe. From there they aim to start the global war against the unbeliever that they see as the way to achieve their aims. They're not going to stop no matter if peace came to the Middle East tomorrow. We're never going to agree and we're going around in circles. Best leave it there.
