I agree that these are sick bastards but please don't equate this with a whole religion's beliefs. The extremists who perpetrate these acts are not thought of as true Muslims by the Muslim faith and they will be very swift to condemn this barbaric act. Its a fallacy that these acts are not condemned by Muslims as well. Both Islamic governments and Muslim leaders have always expressed their abhorrence and the religious leaders have also stressed that the people who commit these acts cannot regard themselves as Muslims. I know because I am living in the World's largest Muslim country and see and read the statements made. I am a Muslim and my home town is now Manchester. It kills me to read the reports and see the news from so far away. I vehemently condemn this act and any other terrorist activities My wife was at a Take That concert at the Arena only last Thursday and it brought home to her that it could just as easily easily have been her and her friends. As GeordieHalfbreed says its playing into the terrorists hands to blame this on Islam. I don't think it is a coincidence that these attacks are aimed at Western countries with significant Muslim populations. The plan is to try and drive a wedge between the various sections of these societies and it is imperative that we don't play into their hands by allowing this to happen.
Fellas, we can talk about this, and the reasons why, until the cows come home. But yet again, a Muslim terrorist has caused destruction. Things will get a lot worse before they get better.
Following on from my earlier post.. Imam Qari Asim MBE, Imam of Leeds Makkah Mosque and independent member of the government's Anti-Muslim Hatred Working Group, said the victims "are very much in our thoughts and prayers". "This was an attack on all of us," he added. "We absolutely condemn the barbaric acts of an individual determined to spread hate and prejudice across the world. "The senseless murder of innocents is utterly deplorable. "We must not let them win by creating the divisions they so desperately seek to sow." it's good to see this sort of thing and in this instance I stand corrected
Sorry - missed this before. Its all a bit political. This case blew up when he was up for re-election. He was by far the most popular candidate and so it the case was politically motivated. They said he committed blasphemy for telling Muslims that a verse in the Koran that says you should not follow non-believers did not mean Muslims shouldn't vote for a Christian governer! Prosecuters changed their sentence request from 2 years in prison to probation, after he lost, but Judges sentenced him to 2 years anyway. Now prosecutors have appealed to reduce sentence! This **** only happens in Indonesia but makes for an interesting life. More worrying is following article (Now I know where Fredor went on holiday and why he is not posting at the moment: British man among 141 arrested by Indonesian police over 'gay sex party' at Jakarta sauna A British national is among 141 men detained by Indonesian police in a raid on a gay sauna in the capital, Jakarta. The men were detained for questioning after police raided what they claimed was a gay sex party promoted as “The Wild One” on Sunday night. Rights activists say it is the latest sign of growing hostility towards homosexuality in the world’s most populous Muslim nation. Lawyers now claim they have been denied access to the men, leading to fears that the police will try to force confessions to be later used against them. Teams of lawyers had descended on the North Jakarta police precinct where the men are being held to offer legal assistance, but to no avail, Ricky Gunawan from the Community Legal Aid Institute told The Telegraph. “It’s been quite difficult to get access in terms of information as well as to get their permission to sign power of attorney…to ensure that their rights are respected in this legal process,” he said. Mr Gunawan claimed this was a common tactic used by Indonesian police immediately after arrest. “Usually this is the time where the people arrested will confess and then the police will use their confessions because there is no lawyer present,” he said. please log in to view this image Police officers escort men arrested in a raid on a gay sauna at North Jakarta police headquarters in Jakarta, Indonesia, Monday, May 22 CREDIT: TATAN SYUFLANA/AP As media waited for a police news conference on Monday afternoon, some of the arrested men were put on display, their faces covered by black ski masks. Conditions at the precinct were very overcrowded, he added. Homosexuality is not illegal in Indonesia but the police were using “loosely defined” pornography laws, Gunawan said. “That’s why we have been rejecting the pornography law since it was enacted in 2009,” he said. Police have so far said that ten will be charged, including the sauna’s owner and several strippers. If found guilty they face a jail term of up to ten years. Others arrested must be released by Tuesday morning if there is no evidence of criminality found against them. Otherwise they could be detained for 20 days. Legal aid groups said their rights had already been violated after police photographed them naked and facilitated the spread of those images on social media. Indonesia’s LGBT community has been increasingly under siege in the past year, subject to raids and arrests. Two men face caning on Tues for gay sex in the conservative province of Aceh. The Jakarta raid was “another indicator of the decline in gender minorities’ rights in Indonesia,” said Andreas Harsono, a researcher with Human Rights Watch, warning that the situation was likely to get worse. “Sadly it coincides with the rise of intolerant Islamism in Indonesia,” said Mr Harsono. “It’s time to question the notion that Indonesia is a moderate Muslim majority country.”
I only read a small article on the governor quite a few weeks back and meant to delve deeper, but obviously forgetting. It does all seem's pretty crazy, I think I was surprised to find that Indonesia was world’s most populous Muslim nation, I'm obviously quite narrow minded and believe that the main Muslim countries start at Turkey and stop at Saudi Arabia, Looking at the map below, I was nearly right! The tolerance levels shown to homosexuality in some of these countries is pre-historic. please log in to view this image
Islam didnt really get here until 13th Century but now 85% of population is Muslim, the rest mainly Christian, Hindu, Buddhist and the odd sun worshippers. Interestingly its a secular country but a lot of laws are based on Islam. Most of the people are very moderate Muslims and often clashes occur between a population that is becoming increasingly westernised and the more fundamentalist Islamicists occur. So alcohol, LGBT and womens rights are always areas of conflict.
See IS have now claimed responsibilty and police have arrested someone in Manchester who they believe to be involved. Also another arrest and evacuation of Arndale Centre in town centre but person arrested not associated with last night.
An 8 year old girl now among the confirmed dead. There are no words to describe how sickening this is. They are targeting people now that they know will get the response they want.
Unfortunately, when you say the tolerance level is pre-historic, I think you mean it is significantly higher than pre-1960's Britain. Tolerance is a very recent phenomenon
That is the most sickening thing about this attack. The murder of innocent children. They are cowards that cover their faces, hide in the shadows and proclaim jihad against our way of life.
They are utter cowards. Sadly, they are clever as well as utter cowards. The people who indoctrinate are never the ones carrying the bombs. I don't often agree with Trump, but the bomber probably was a sad loser. That's who they target. People easy to indoctrinate. Then they get them to target people (kids) that will get a massive reaction and cause a backlash. That in turn will make it easier to indoctrinate the next generation of sad losers. This attack is nothing but a tragedy and an abhorrence. This change in tactics of who is targeted does make me wonder if they know they are losing the war though. Any attack is one too many but they know that for all their efforts that not that many attacks are actually happening. The vast majority of muslims in this country are growing up as healthy, stable and productive members of our society. They haven't succeeded in driving a wedge between the majority of the British population and the muslims within it, so they are upping the ante.
I think this is true. They have been upping the ante. I'm just not sure they are losing the war though, or if they are, its only baby steps. In 50 years time I would imagine this battle will still be raging. It will take a long time for the worlds population to develop fully past all this bollocks. As I've said many times I long for a world where we have realised religion is a massive waste of our valuable energies! It won't happen in mine or my childrens lifetime, it may never happen. That is more of a general hope though. I may not believe in religions, but I don't think they're all inherently evil - they are just a very good vehicle for evil people due to long ingrained belief systems. This is a tragic and abhorrent act as you say. It is motivated by people who wish to create instability worldwide so their evil can spread and rule. The best way for them to do that is for your normal everyday muslims to fall within their grasp and have a divided population. They want people to choose sides because in the long run that will lead to what they desire - a war between religions. We should remember that Muslims have likely been hurt in these attacks, there will have been muslim taxi drivers running around for no fee to help those affected last night, there will have been muslim emergency staff doing all they can to assist with the aftermath. To generalise now will only give these ****ers what they want. If we isolate people based on faith, we will be providing these ****ers with their next generation.
You are right. It won't be over in 50 years. It won't be over in 80 years. This isn't a war that will be won with bullets and bombs though. Like you say this is a war between those who use belief systems for evil and those who use them as a guide to live a better life (not that I believe it, but have no problem with those who do). They are losing this war because Jakarta is posting crappy prediction cup competitions on here while his wife goes to a Take That concert. They are losing this war because Spurlock goes onto the mackems board and takes the piss out of them. They are losing because while some indoctrinated loner detonates a bomb, muslim taxi drivers turn off their meters and take vulnerable people home, and muslim doctors go back to work instead of taking time off to treat the injured and dying. The world is slowly changing. Even last night while reporting on the bomb attack one of the other main stories was about Taiwan becoming the first asian country to legalise gay marriage. They might be baby steps, but they are baby steps in the right direction. We shouldn't shoot these bastards. They want to be martyrs. We should lock them in a cell with flat screen TV's covering the walls, with 24 hour feeds of all of these baby steps happening. Let them watch the world changing and weep.
The only thing that will get rid of religion well and truly is education. It's no coincidence that in Western Europe, religion has declined with increases in literacy and education rates.
We are too soft. 66% of British Muslims would not report it to the police if they found out that someone they knew had been in contact with Syria or IS. From what I understand his guy wasn't even a suicide bomber, haven't the police arrested the sicko who carried out this attack. For me attacks of this nature, like the Lee Rigby attack & the Tunisia massacre have to result in the perpetrators being put down. You can't take an 8 year old little girls life and the be afforded the luxury of a British prison at the cost of the tax payer. We pay hundreds of thousands of pounds a year in tax if not millions for surveillance of these people. This attacker was known to the police, yet he still carried it out. Why was he afforded the luxury of freedom in this country when he was a known threat. For me it's not good enough
and even where it doesn't eradicate religion it encourages those who still choose to follow it to look at it with a critical mind, which in turn tends to weed out extremist views.
The police have already confirmed that it was a suicide bomber who is among the dead. Any other arrests will be those they suspect of helping him or working towards other attacks.
