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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal Forum Moderator

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    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4515092/PIERS-MORGAN-Trump-needs-better-people-s-over.html
    Ignore the journalist (and the rag he is writing for ) and this describes Trumps issues pretty well. The only surprise is that anyone is surprised.


    If you don’t admit you need help, Mr President, and hire some people fast who actually know what they are doing you are going to blunder your way straight into impeachment
    This has been the worst week of Donald Trump’s presidency.
    And it may yet turn out to be a defining, disastrous one.
    It erupted last Tuesday with the sudden, shocking firing of FBI director James Comey, and reached a chilling crescendo with last night’s bombshell New York Times report that Trump tried to make Comey stop the bureau’s investigation into former National Security Advisor, General Mike Flynn.
    Make no mistake, if that claim is proven – and the White House vehemently denies it – then President Trump is in very serious trouble.
    It would appear to represent a clear attempt to obstruct justice, and that would very likely constitute grounds for impeachment.
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    This has been the worst week in Donald Trump's presidency and he could be in serious trouble
    Trump will doubtless be hurling blame left, right and center for all the negative headlines in the past few days.
    But I’m afraid he only has himself to blame after a series of spectacular missteps that have dragged him to a very dangerous precipice.
    First, he should have fired Comey with more grace and political common sense.
    The decision was correct after Comey lost the confidence of almost everyone in Washington.
    But doing it the way Trump did it was unnecessarily savage and demeaning to a decent man put who made mistakes.
    This is not the Celebrity Apprentice; public humiliation is not a pre-requisite of ending someone’s lengthy career of outstanding service to his country.
    Yet Comey found out his fate when news broke on TV screens behind him as he spoke to some of his FBI staff in Los Angeles.
    He assumed it was a prank, but no, the joke was on him.
    To rub salt into those gaping wounds, Trump accused Comey of being a ‘showboat’ and ‘grandstander’, two qualities that one might assume this particular President would see as virtues, not faults.
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    First Trump fired Comey with no grace or common sense and then admitted it was over 'this Russia thing'
    Even worse, White House spokeswoman Sarah Sanders said Comey had committed ‘atrocities’ with his actions over Hillary Clinton’s emails – a ridiculously inaccurate and offensive use of a word normally reserved for war crimes and human rights abuses.
    All this was guaranteed to make Comey come out fighting, which he now has to devastating effect.
    Trump’s second big mistake was to admit he fired Comey over ‘this Russia thing with Trump and Russia’.
    That ‘Russia thing’ is the on-going FBI investigation into whether Trump’s campaign team colluded with the Russians to fix the US election.
    Trump is perfectly entitled to view the ‘Russia thing’ as a ‘made up story’ as he put it in the same interview with NBC’s Lester Holt, particularly as there has been no evidence yet that any such collusion ever happened.
    What he is NOT entitled to do is fire the FBI director simply because he is doing the job he is paid to do, even if that job is making life uncomfortable for the President.
    By indicating the Russia investigation was indeed a reason for the firing, Trump also directly contradicted previous statements by his own White House staff and Vice President, Mike Pence – making them all look ridiculous.
    This after having failed in the first place to give his PR team almost any warning of the storm to come then leaving them to flounder around, essentially making up a narrative as they went along.
    No wonder it fell apart within a day.
    Trump’s third big mistake was the very next day to invite the Russian foreign minister and US ambassador to to a meeting in the Oval Office. The meeting may well have been on the schedule for a while, but that doesn’t matter. The optics were terrible and the meeting should have been postponed.
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    Trump’s third and fourth big mistake are both seen here - the very next day inviting the Russian foreign minister and US ambassador to to a meeting in the Oval Office - and then banning the US media from covering the meeting
    Trump’s fourth big mistake was to ban the US media from covering that meeting but allow Russian media to do so. This was a deliberate two fingers to the press he so loves to brand ‘Fake News!’ but again, the optics stank.
    For a US President to offer favourable treatment to Russian media over his own American media for a meeting at the White House is completely unacceptable and deserved all the opprobrium it received.
    Trump’s fifth big mistake was to then tell the Russian delegation classified information about an ISIS terror plot. Putin’s men are not a trusted ally, and should not be treated as such.
    President Trump’s loose tongue with top-secret intelligence that had been passed to his government in strict confidence by the Israelis was not illegal but it was very ill-advised and a gift to his many enemies.
    This, as they swiftly reminded us, was a man who spent most of his campaign screaming that Hillary Clinton couldn’t be trusted with classified information. Yet here he was casually handing it to an American foe like he was giving them a box of caviar.
    As President he can declassify whatever intel he wants but to do so without checking with the agency that supplied it and balancing the offence caused to the country that provided it to the US and the danger in which it may have placed the life of their human source against the benefit of sharing with Russia was reckless to say the least.
    All this, though, pales into relative insignificance compared to the sensational new claim that Trump asked Comey to drop an FBI investigation into General Flynn.
    Comey made a detailed note of this extraordinary request in a contemporaneous memo he wrote immediately after a meeting on February 14 at the White House.

    The ex FBI chief is apparently famed for covering his back in writing, and he shared this memo with FBI colleagues.
    So there is a paper trail.
    The timing of this was incredibly sensitive.
    Flynn had just been fired for lying about conversations he had with Russians in which he inappropriately discussed sanctions.
    But the FBI investigation continued and may yet lead to charges and a whole heap of damaging new headlines for the Trump administration.
    Comey alleges that Trump said to him: ‘I hope you can let this go.’
    Those seven damning words may come back to haunt the President, because they offer the first documented evidence that he may have directly tried to influence the Justice Department and FBI probe into inappropriate links between his team and Russia.
    This couldn’t be more serious because obstruction of justice is a federal crime and that could trigger presidential impeachment as it did with Richard Nixon over Watergate.
    Of course, it is important to state again that Trump denies Comey’s dynamite claim, and that there may be no way of proving it other than the memo.
    So Trump may well survive a push for impeachment on the basis of a confused ‘he said, he said’ claim and counterclaim.
    But I hope he doesn’t underestimate either the severity of this crisis, or his own role in it.
    He needs to get a grip fast on both his own erratic behaviour and that of those who work for him before it brings him down.
    Donald Trump is a not a conventional politician and didn’t win the election by being one.
    He is a brash, cocky billionaire business tycoon who plays by his own rules and sees himself as a people’s hero bull careering around the tired, elitist, intransigent Washington china shop.
    But when you become President of the United States, there are certain rules you HAVE to play by, as he is now discovering.
    Trump has grandiose plans to make America great again, and much of what he has been doing is worthy of praise, but he will never achieve his goals if the current incessant chaos continues to plague his presidency.
    This past dreadful week should be the catalyst for a dramatic overhaul of his top team.
    There are still people who want him to succeed and are prepared to accept that his frequent missteps are down to inexperience and naivety rather than plain craziness or corruption.
    But if he wants to keep that goodwill much longer he has to admit to himself that he has a lot to learn.
    He must create a tighter, far more disciplined ship, and surround himself with experienced and, crucially, respected political operatives who know exactly what they are doing and have the ability to calm rather than worsen the constant storms that batter any White House administration.
    Right now, he is seemingly surrounded by a bunch of headless chickens that have no idea how to put a brake on all this mayhem or how to exercise any form of control over their boss when he goes rogue.
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    The President seems to be surrounded by headless chickens that have no idea how to stop the mayhem. Press Secretary Sean Spicer and advisor Kellyanne Conway - seen here today following Trump to Marine One - have become objects of open mockery and derision
    Some, like his beleaguered press secretary Sean Spicer and advisor Kellyanne Conway have become objects of open mockery and derision.
    Others, like supposed chief strategists Steve Bannon and Reince Priebus, need to step up to the plate fast or get traded out of the White House, because strategy is being swamped by scandal.
    My favourite TV drama was The West Wing.
    Trump will never be a president in the style of Martin Sheen’s character Josiah Bartlet.
    But he desperately needs his own Leo McGarry, CJ Cregg, Josh Lyman and Toby Ziegler; razor-smart people with razor-smart political antenna, infused with basic honesty and the strength of character to stand up to him when he is about to make a big mistake.
    And he needs to acquire the humility to listen to them.
    In other words, President Trump needs people who can save him from himself. And he needs them fast.
     
    #3701
  2. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal Forum Moderator

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  3. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    Humpty Trumpty sat on a wall.
    Humpty Trumpty, his hands are quite small.
    All the kings' horses and all the kings' men,
    Couldn't cover Humptys' Russia links again.
     
    #3703
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  4. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal Forum Moderator

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  5. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    I hope he also sings "Tired of being alone" to Trump.
     
    #3705
  6. 1972 'Guilty'
    1985 'Going Away'

    Sure these two could be incorporated into a message to Dumpf!! <laugh>
     
    #3706

  7. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    He's a Democrat, despite being a Texan.
    Here he is doing his thing:



    I think he's just doing this to see who knocks it back. Nice to have that on record.
     
    #3707
  8. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    Markets dont like uncertancies. Markets dont like increased government borrowing, markets dont like nationalisation. Upsetting the markets is not, 'for the good of the people'. In fact it is very bad for the people. Falls in stock market yields affects pensons in the longer term. In the short term many listed companies earn money in dollars so short term markets normally rise.

    Falls in Sterling are good for industry in the short term, and very good for employment as we can begin to compete with lower wage economies but in real terms, people paid in sterling will receive less unless they get massive wage rises. Wage rises fuel inflation, which if left unchecked destroys the economy, results in unemployment which increases govenment borrowing even more. They way to defeat inflaton is to raise interest rates, this reduces spending which in turn destroys a service based economy, and one is in a viscious circle.

    Stick with May and Hammond, they know best (despite being a Clarkson short of a TV show), beats Tom (Watson) & Jerry (Corbyn) hands down. I would suggest this Labour manifesto us akin to the Wilson government, and that was a disaster.
     
    #3708
  9. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    But the Tories are bad for the economy:
    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/...the-biggest-borrowers-over-the-last-70-years/
     
    #3709
  10. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    An interesting article that needs more work. It would be interesting to see borrowing as a percentage of GDP. It would also be useful to see the actual cost of borrowing, i.e. interest incurred. I have significant borrowing on credit cards but all has been transfered to 18 month/2 year interest free deals. When the deal is approaching it's end I pay it off.
     
    #3710
  11. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    The Tories don't pay it off, though.
     
    #3711
  12. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Here are the flaws with that comment

    i.) With her constant u-turns and inability to operate like anything other than a malfunctioning robotic parrot, so to say Theresa May "knows best" is wishful thinking at best - and outright delusion at worst
    ii.) After a Budget that went down like a cup of cold vomit, especially the attempted tax grab on National Insurance that was swiftly repealed and left a £2bn hole in their plans, the only way that anyone can say that Hammond "knows best" with a straight face is after eating half a pound of puffer fish sushi in one sitting
    iii.) It has been reported (by The Times, Evening Standard and Russia Today) that May is looking to ditch Hammond at the earliest opportunity as he isn't the Yes Man she wants, so voting in the Tories because "Hammond knows best" is going to look foolish when (based on those reports) Amber Rudd is ushered in as May's next Chancellor

    So two people who clearly do not "know best", one of whom is being lined up for being jettisoned in favour of someone else who doesn't "know best" but at least toes Theresa May;s line, that's not a pairing to inspire confidence in anyone other than the most blatant of tax dodgers.
     
    #3712
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  13. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    According to those figures they don't. However, market are driven by peception rather than historic data. The markets perceive that the tories will do a better job. Many other considerations are required as well, wars, i.e. Falklands and Iraq 1&2 can skew figures, world economic data etc. The author has only done half a job.
     
    #3713
  14. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    He's shown that they've been consistently crap for the economy for decades.

    We're told that the markets think that the Tories will do a better job, because it suits the people that are reporting it.
    It may even be true, on this occasion.
    They would've been consistently wrong in the past though, which isn't something that would be missed.

    We're told that the Conservative Party represent a bunch of things, because that's what they claim to represent.
    The same is true of the Republican Party in the US. It's equally untrue.
    What they actually represent is the interests of about 1% of the country, who pay them very well.
     
    #3714
  15. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    ...something the taxman cannot say, given that 1% goes to great lengths to not pay them at all.

    Come to think of it, for a couple of decades we've heard constant complaints about footballers being overpaid - yet many of these people are now complaining that Corbyn wants these overpaid footballers to pay for the NHS. What do Mail readers want???
     
    #3715
  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member Forum Moderator

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    Whatever they're told they want.
     
    #3716
  17. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    ...even when what they're told they want directly contradicts something they were previously told they wanted.
     
    #3717
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  18. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Two contrasting stories from the past few days, neither of which got covered by the BBC

    i.) Jeremy Corbyn receiving a standing ovation after he addressed the national College of Nursing's annual congress on 15th May, where he said the NHS was being "dismantled by stealth" and Labour were "utterly determined to defend it", as well as re-introducing nurse's bursaries which had been axed by the lesser-spotted Health Secretary earlier this year

    ii.) Amber Rudd getting jeered off when she addressed the Police Federation conference on 17th May, who responded to a question about officers using food banks by claiming they receive £40,000 a year - a claim which was met with laughter followed by jeers of "Lies, lies, lies" by the assembled officers, all of whom were fully aware the average salary is £20,000 a year while the maximum they receive is £38,000, something which the Home Secretary should be aware of...but of course, it's only worth pointing out when people get their figures wrong in public if they're Labour MPs, isn't it?
     
    #3718
  19. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    So how did Ol' Swivel Eyes approach Dementia Awareness Week? By announcing that, if anyone suffering from dementia has assets of over £100,000, they will have to pay for their own social care.
     
    #3719
  20. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    I heard her addressing the conference on radio (can't remember what station, it was either BBC or LBC). Anyway, what stood out for me is that even having said £40k TO a group of police and having them laugh at her, she then pointed out that it was what she had "written down", in other words what the speech writers had given to her. This is the big difference with the Abbott story. Abbott realised pretty quickly that what she said was ridiculous and tried to correct it, but was rightly ridiculed for getting it wrong originally. Rudd, having been laughed at for giving a ludicrous figure, then gave every impression that she believed the figure was correct and it did not cross her mind that it was a ludicrous amount for the police to be paid. This demonstrates that she has no concept of what working people get paid! And of course she hasn't got half the ridicule that Abbott got.

    The other thing it pointed out was the Tories continued attempt to win by divide and conquer - by setting groups against each other - those on benefits against those who are not, OAPs against tax payers, private sector against public sector, anyone on strike against anyone disadvantaged by a strike etc etc. I think it's quite deliberate because it's attempting to break up any remnant of the social consensus that has survived since WW2. With everyone jelous or angry at everyone else, the one group that we are not getting angry at is the one most responsible and the one getting disproportionately rich at the expense of everyone else. Getting rich regardless of the general state of the economy - so is it any wonder that they don't want to go back to the cyclic nature of economic activity that used to exist and used to be managed by the Government.
     
    #3720
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