Match Day Thread 2016/17 Premier League, Cups & Euro Watch

I agree with Saint - diving stems from a sheer desire to win and it's something we should encourage our players to do.

We don't want s bunch of choirboys at this club

 

Amusing stat of the day:

Most Premier League goals scored from outside the area since 2012/13:

C. Eriksen (14)
Y. Toure (14)
P. Coutinho (13)
L. Suarez (12)

------

Suarez left the PL 3 years ago ...

 

Weather's been really nice here most of the time.

 

Libel. I'm ringing me lawyer in the morning.

 

Well in that sense everything in football is a learned behaviour, because you aren't born knowing anything about football, but that doesn't mean its not instinctive. When a defender sees a ball flying past him, the first instinct is to stick a leg out, even if it actually causes the goalie to go the wrong way. Its the same with forwards now, once you see a defender sticking a leg out its their instinct to anticipate contact and go down. They don't have time to process the decision and weigh up the pros and cons of diving.

 

And this is the crux of the matter. Officialdom has let it go on so long they now are not willing to take the pain required to untrain it.

It would take prob 5 Years of people batching about harsh calls to eradicate it... or at least I should say temper it to an acceptable level.


Go to Spain and it's so endemic I don't think they even realise what's going on.

 

True, but the use of deliberate diving to gain an advantage is something that became widespread over the last 30 years and younger generations of players have been brought up to look to do it whenever possible and see nothing wrong in it.
This is something we discussed earlier and I don't really want to repeat myself - it's just a dishonesty that I really dislike and I'd love to see it dealt with properly and not condoned.

 

If you swing an object at someone's leg, they're instinctively going to try and hurdle it. Should they fail at that, the body's reaction is to catch itself by landing on legs or hands to avoid hitting the ground - not to land on their chest and then roll around 4 times.

Diving isn't remotely natural, neither is 'taking contact' and going down. It's come from players either trying to deceive the officials to gain an advantage they wouldn't have got (see Lucas today - embarrassing), or deceiving the officials to gain an advantage they feel they deserve (exaggerating contact because the current consensus among ex pros and pundits seems to be contact is enough of a reason to go down, even if it's not enough contact to make the average human fall)

Football is the only sport I can think of where seeing a leg in your way means you leave a trailing leg of your own and drop to the floor. For every other sport, the usual approach is to jump over the leg and continue on your way. It's so culturally accepted that any contact in the box is enough of a reason to go down that all players will do it and, as we've seen this weekend, anticipate it and go down before the contact even happens because that's just how it is.

It's pathetic.

 

I think its a generational thing with supporters, too. The majority of older supporters seem to abhor diving while the majority supporters who have 'grown up' with it in the game just view it in the same light as shirt pulling, tactical fouling etc.

 

You have this pretty spot on, the problem is that sheeple automatically associate no contact with a dive now (probably because they have never run as children ).
I base my judgement on dives on the players reaction, if he immediately looks to the ref or waves his arm it's probably an attempt to win a foul, if he just hits the floor and tries to carry on or perhaps nurse an injury from a poor landing then it's usually a fall/loss of balance.

Not everything is black and white, foul/dive.

 

I don't like it and it's pathetic, but i understand why it's done. It happened to Remy last year can't remember who we were playing and he got **** all even though staying on his feet meant he slipped and lost advantage totally. It happened to coutinho who to be fair had a clear shot afterwards so he did have a great advantage.

Just as much as my pet hate of very cynical teams including your own and mine (i swear you guys more) and big tony where as soon as a winger burst pasts and they are immediately pulled back or chopped down with minimum attempt to win the ball (niang kept taken out by clyne) but it happens and it's part of the game so its something i've come to accept.

Oh and last one the worse one ever is the defender/attacker bear hug, shirt pulling back pushing on set pieces. It's ridiculous really

 

Pretty sure that's not what Saint is saying?

 

You keep saying this, but fouls are part of the game. They are punished with free kicks. Cynical fouls are part of defending, and it's a necessity. You know you're going to get punished with a yellow but it's a better consequence than letting forward past you with clear run at back 4.

Diving is trying to con the ref ref into giving you something that wasn't there. It's not even remotely similar to a cynical foul.

 

Yeah but sometimes you get ones like Lucas where he dives then is too embarrassed to appeal

 

Well my friend, they aren't part of the game. it's still cheating.

The argument for diving is that it's also part of the game. You get given a yellow card and a free kick against you. That's the punishment for the offence .

Whether you like it or not, both are cheating when it's done deliberately and not as an official attempt to carry on playing with the ball/tackle on the ball.

Just because you think one is more natural doesn't mean it's not cheating. It's only a necessity because you don't get big punishments for it. Same with diving.

 

I agree.
I played as a left-winger and I can guarantee the last thing I wanted to was end up on the deck. If a big lump of a defender came sliding towards me like a train I'd try to hurdle him - and most times I'd bloody well succeed rather than be taken out. Watching modern players throwing themselves to the ground at every available opportunity is really annoying.
I fully understand why followers of other sports think football is played by a bunch of fairies.

 

Lucas is quite adept at most of the Dark Arts, but he definitely needs to work on that one.

 

Hey we have all had/got em and no club has the one upmanship on this.
I just genuinely think that there is a lot of people now who have no idea how to differentiate between a dive and real fall.
It's all come down to 40 camera angles and super slow-mo, no contact = dive

 

Not sure about that. The pundits have their mates and are biased. Then you have your militant fans of clubs who will defend their players. I think in general though most people can tell who has dived or not.

I would say for 80% of penalties given, they are dives by players to exaggerate the contact. Those are fouls and penalties but also the player diving. Kanes one this weekend is a perfect example of that

 

If you try to hurdle an opponent's leg then it can cause you to lose your running momentum and slow down, meaning other players on their team have a chance to catch up with you or meaning your body isn't positioned ideally to shoot or pass to a team mate as you would've been before the opponent stuck his leg out or dived in.