There seems to be many dissatisfied voters on this forum page with clear indication of voting informal or alike. I say a vote for UTR's Nothing Party will give you peace of mind, if nothing else. Remember, a vote for Nothing is something! Phone 1800DIDLEYSQUAT today!
Has to be adversarial. The EU wants to make an example of us, even if Merkel protests she doesn't. Gibraltar, N. Ireland - if these are promises from the EU, then things will go down badly. I suspect both are negotiable Can't agree that if for example the Eastern European states claim that Junckers is negotiating on too hard a basis and could damage their economies, workers etc, that would be bad for the UK
Great tactical leak from the EU. Scroll down until you get to 1) and read up. https://mobile.twitter.com/JeremyCliffe?ref_src=twsrc^tfw&ref_url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-39758977 I particularly like 19).
I don't think there's any surprise in what is being reported, Juncker will play hardball and May will do her 'Thatcher-Lite' act and there will be brinkmanship in the extreme. The major problem for May is that by calling the election she will be giving plenty of ammunition to the opposition which may backfire badly on her and the Tories, as if the opposition parties carve up seats between them by withdrawing candidates they may pull off a surprise hung parliament. I think May made a major blunder calling a totally unnecessary election...
I see the Greens and Liberals are withdrawing candidates in some seats but will Corbyn allow Labour to do the same? I doubt he will, and to be effective these 3 parties plus Nationalists would really need to seriously work together.
Stan, this is a long sequence of tweets. The tweets are by date. I can't even see 1) let alone 19). Can you be more specific?
This makes it a bit easier to read. https://www.forbes.com/sites/france...completely-deluded-about-brexit/#3d1751e54f04 19) Davis then objected that EU could not force a post-Brexit, post-ECJ UK to pay the bill. OK, said Juncker, then no trade deal.
Thanks, Strolls. The account actually made me laugh. It's like two heavyweight boxers squaring up before the bout. Instead of moving towards common ground, at present, they are moving away, articulating how they can bash the other side. Cool heads will win over eventually (I'm betting Junckers will be side-lined by the EU because he takes everything personally). The bit that sums it up for me is: "Let us make Brexit a success" May told them. Juncker countered that Britain will now be a third state, not even (like Turkey) in the customs union: "Brexit cannot be a success". What Junckers meant was - Brexit must not be a success. That's a highly negative approach and won't subsist because it causes damage all round. At some point, like in 99% of High Court actions, these pampered prima donnas will have to start to compromise
Well, Brexit can be a success in terms of 'sovereignty', 'control of borders' 'freedom from the ECJ', 'financial contributions' it just can't be in terms of trade, because that would make a nonsense of EU membership. And I think we can get the non trade stuff most easily by simply walking away. EU leaders have already clearly and explicitly accepted that there will be damage all round, the only way to avoid that would be for us to stay in, or second choice accept a Norway type relationship, both of which our government is not prepared to do. Their job is to maintain the integrity of the 27, not to be nice to us. So we will have to give way to some extent on € contributions, status of EU citizens, referring trade disputes to ECJ etc in order to get better trade terms, but these terms still won't be as good as any country in the Customs Union, e.g. Turkey. It will be interesting to see what the hardline Brexiters think of the concessions we will cough up. But if it all collapses that's fine too, as our representatives will tell us (endlessly) that it was the fault of the enemy within undermining them and the hated EU 'ganging up' on poor little Blighty. An ideal scenario for our ever growing victim culture.
I suspect the compromise involves money. If we pay the EU for a status akin to single market membership, but without any of the other handcuffs including Customs Union so we are free to make our own deals around the world, trade tariffs are thus avoided for the UK and the EU exporting to the UK, so then the question is then, how much? It's hardly cherry picking if we're making contributions to the EU budget and not taking anything out. I'd be suspicious of having trade disputes between UK and EU companies decided by the ECJ. In relative terms, it hasn't been long established and I wonder at its possible bias. The Norway option is a crap deal because they have most of the handcuffs (except Customs Union) make none of the rules and presumably don't get the generous subsidies like those paid to the French farmers.
I'm sure we will have to 'pay to play' and suspect this will include something around migration, which the Swiss can't get out of. The Customs Union clears the regulation hurdle, its more impactful on actual trade than tariffs which have been neutralised by the (currently rising!) £. Some formal body has to decide disputes, what else is there other than the ECJ? I agree the Norway deal seems pony, they seem to do everything except have a role in decision making. Of course, whatever deal, we will have no influence in EU policy, our interests won't count other than to the extent that the 27 think they need to be thought about.
What an imagination you have, Strolls! I'd say Ken Clarke had it right when he was caught unwittingly on camera complaining that Theresa " is a bloody difficult woman but you and I worked with Margaret Thatcher (laughs) I get on all right with her ... and she is good." She's intractable and that's why Junckers is bleating to the media
I don't think we'd give much control away on migration, but it's in the UK's interest to allow a certain amount of skilled migration from the EU. We have to call it based on our needs. Remember the ECJ is simply the last court of appeal. If it's deciding matters based on EU regulation and law, then it probably is appropriate. Not for anything else from the UK's standpoint.
May is quite right to say we will walk away with no deal in the face of vindictive undermining by the EU over our ties with Northern Ireland and Gibralter and their endless threats. They are seriously pissed off that we had the balls to leave their unfair, undemocratic elitist club and I for one can't wait to get the hell away from these people (the EU bureaucrats, not the general population of Europe). The road ahead will be bumpy, but I knew that when I voted to leave. We will prosper long term, whilst the EU is destined to fail.
'Intractable' ooh, that's a great place to start a negotiation from isn't it? The leaking is all planned, and will continue throughout the discussions, to disMay's, who seems to think everything can be kept secret and a fait accompli presented to us, fury. Who is now spending their time denying everything?
I don't deny that she models herself on Thatcher, and she'll drive the EU lot to drink (what are the odds Juncker succumbs to alcohol poisoning before the two years is up?). I ask myself whether I'd rather have Corbyn or Tin Tin negotiating on my behalf and don't have much difficulty deciding, no
