That's why I said "essentially". Government borrowing and expenditure feeds directly into the calculation, that's why it impacts. I agree with you (and agree with you afterwards) that we are not in an actual recession. Like I said, I agreed that I was wrong that we would go into actual recession. I admitted that. However, everyone at the time thought Article 50 notice would be served immediately, as we were all told once the vote happened we'd be out in two years. As it transpires, it's taken nearly 9 months before Article 50 notice is served. So we still might have a recession. As for all the other impacts - they've been proven absolutely true. Something of a shame when you don't even give me the chance to explain myself, but if that's the sort of person you are then it's clear even the most logical argument in the world wouldn't change your mind. Shutting down debate IS a fascist thing, and I don't believe you are a fascist so I don't think you meant this.
In what way? Are we improving democracy? No. Our democratic deficit is worse than the EU's. Are we improving our economy? No. We are making it worse. Are we improving free trade? No. We are raising barriers and isolating ourselves. Are we improving supranational relations? No. We have the same petty politicians whining pathetically on both sides, and we are constantly offending our potential trade partners in the Commonwealth by sabre-rattling about the Empire. Are we changing our own politicians? No. We have the same political elite firmly in control. Are we improving the lives of common people? No. They are going to be directly poorer as a result. I could go on. But other than slightly loose concepts related to nationalism and perhaps, if your aim is to reduce immigration (although this is incompatible with increasing trade with the old Commonwealth) there are no objective improvements.
On this, we can completely agree. At least the politicians on the Leave side were shameless in their bullshit and not bothering to hide their self-serving aims. The remain politicians just couldn't be bothered and were as arrogant and entitled as ever.
Very nice we haven't seen you in ages and you come on here throwing insults at one of the more respected posters on this board rather than contributing to one of the football related threads. Ok so you're disappointed that the Referendum result didn't go the way you wanted, but Brexit is happening so get used to it
You've no idea of the history (and I don't think you want to, but could be wrong) so I'd appreciate if you'd take that back or at least acknowledge that you're not quite sure on this one. It's got nothing to do with the Referendum and everything to do with Dave's behaviour towards me previously KIO. I've got no issue with any of the rest of you and consider this a good natured debate.
That is in no way inconsistent. But to be clear I don't have an issue with JWM and my comment to him I appreciate looked a bit sneery but it was meant in a good-natured way as a response to his sarcastic post. I don't think JWM would take offence from something I say (although I could be wrong there).
Anyway, I didn't come here to get in an argument with or about Dave. I had hoped he wouldn't respond. I actually came to see what news there was about our new manager and noticed this thread, thinking people might be interested in discussing with me. I see that's not the case and people prefer echo chambers where everyone agrees with them. Shame. Toodleoo.
It's all about opinions.......I'm happy with the way I voted and have not noticed any negative impact in my everyday life.....if I'm financially worse off in the future that's something I'm happy to accept I'm not and have never been motivated by money.
To be clear to everyone: I didn't chase Norkie off the board, he quit after declaring for absolutely no reason that I and all other lawyers are liars and cheats. He then said that he wanted my head cut off. I am not proud of my response:- I said as much and apologised fully and unconditionally at the time. I got no apology in return and only abuse from Dave, who got unnecessarily involved. It's quite clear that Dave has no intention of making amends for his disgusting behaviour. Here's a copy of my private message to which I got no response:
I'm afraid this is exactly my issue with the world at the moment: (1) It's absolutely not all about opinions - that is what Donald Trump wants people to think with his "alternative facts" - facts are facts Opinions are then based on facts, but some opinions are stronger than others, when the arguments and the logic is more coherent. I know I am a soft target for people accusing me of refusing to change my opinion, but in reality that holds little water. I change my opinion regularly, but based on facts (I'm not perfect, so of course I am emotional too, but I do my best to stick to facts). (2) The "oh but I'm alright Jack" attitude is the most depressing part of it all. If everyone only looks out for himself now then we are in a sorry world and society really is dead. I can't change your mind, but I don't actually believe you are not worried about the negative impact on other people. Anyway, I've said more than enough already. All the best everyone and I mean everyone.
I never said 'I'm alright jack' I said I had not noticed any negative impact in my everyday life saying that is not saying 'I'm okay so bugger everyone else' it's me stating something that I can know about because I am about for a large part of my everyday life......I can't pretend to know how other people are being affected in their lives.......and I try not to presume I know what's best for other people that are in different circumstances..............
You may have some valid points Rob but you put them across in a way that sounds like you know best! The fact is that you don't. None of us will know the exact ramifications of Brexit for years to come when a deal has been done. None of us can know what will happen in the future apart from you and your crystal ball! 17.4 Million people voted OUT which gives Brexit the strongest democratic mandate that this country has ever seen! Our economy is performing well and the Sky hasn't fallen in despite all those politicians who were predicting plagues and pestulance on the Brexit result! We are a string and proud nation and countries will want to trade with us long after we have left the EU. We buy more from the EU than they do with us after all.
Rob, you were utterly atrocious in your victimisation of NORKIE and I only got involved because I refuse to stand back and allow a valuable and aged member of our fraternity abused by somebody who really should know better, but no, it's all about you in your opinion. Sorry Rob, it won't wash!
