Interesting to hear May lecturing the Scots about how stupid they would be to break away from their biggest trading partner.
Ironic that voting to leave the EU has kick started movements that could break up both the EU and seeing the vote in NI the UK too.
Liberal Muslim Maajid Nawaz on LBC today - in recent poll a quarter of UK Muslims asked thought the Charlie Hebdo murders were justified A quarter...
If he was quoting the survey carried out for the BBC by ComRes, it is 2 years old, just after the murders themselves. It was based on telephoning 1000 people. If it was that ComRes survey (I found the questions and results using Google), the question asked was.. Q2. Do you agree or disagree with these statements about cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad ...? "Acts of violence against those who publish images of the Prophet Mohammad can never be justified." 24% disagreed - but you can't infer from that that they all approved of murdering people at Charlie Hebdo. That question wasn't asked. Even so, it's still a sobering thought that a survey of a minority group of British citizens would have so many people ready to disagree that cartoons do not deserve a violent response. They're plain wrong. Goldie, what perspective was Nawaz coming from in bringing this up?
In the context of a lack of enlightenment in large parts of the Muslim community and suppression and misogynistic treatment of women. Young Muslim men are often more extreme than their parents in their antipathy to Western values
Ta. Not surprised that the British-born generation can be more extreme than their parents. I can only relate my personal experience here. I used to teach motorcycling, and met many young British-born Muslims from the East End taking their CBTs. Topics of conversation at break times and lunchtimes were always interesting. Most of them had grown up being told they weren't welcome and should go back where they came from (London?!). Most took their religious elders words with a huge pinch of salt, and laughed at the "back home" village mentality, but felt social pressure from their parents to conform publicly, at least. It's not hard to understand how some might find comfort and "belonging" by being in a radical group that rejects the very people that they believe have rejected them. To paraphrase Groucho Marx - who wants to be in a club that doesn't want you? Justifying it by using a warped interpretation of the Koran is an easy next step. I'm not condoning their actions or attitudes. I just find it hard to see how tarring every brown-skinned Muslim Brit with the same brush can do anything better than create more people like them. There has to be a better way that stands more chance of success. Answers on a postcard....
I fear it will take many years to remove the deeply entrenched attitudes that can lead to approval of jihadism, honour killings etc. Moderate muslims like Nawas have a big part to play Marx quote was slightly different - who wants to join a club that would have someone like me as a member...?
A good post. Muslims of the second generation, whether in Britain, Germany or France, inhabit an 'in between World'. All too often they have rejected their parents world (it was, after all, their parents who placed them in this situation), but not been fully accepted in the new World. I have actually heard people here say about Mesut Ozul that he could have 20 German passports but would still be a Turk. In this 'in between world', not belonging here, and not belonging there, they are, too often, prone to alternative influences. In many cases this just leads to petty crime, or drug dealing, but with an even smaller minority it can lead to more politically radical activity. I do not think that any but a tiny minority could justify the Charlie Hebdo murders, but, at the same time, I would not justify the cartoons either. Deliberately making fun of people's beliefs, particularly when done by a magazine which is part of the establishment, and is directed against the most marginalized, powerless, elements of French society is not acceptable.
The more people make fun of ALL religions the better imo. I presume you didn't approve of "The life of Brian"? Free speech must be protected.
In response to your last sentence, cartoonists in Britain and France have for centuries lampooned everything. Where satire is concerned, no one, nothing is sacred.
Would you publicly make fun of disabled people, homeless people, gays, or maybe people because of their race, and then justify it under the mantra of freedom of speech ? People have the right to live as followers of a religion without being mocked for it. I do not mock non believers, and I expect the same respect in return. As a matter of fact, I quite enjoyed the life of Brian.
Point taken and no I wouldn't do any of the things that you list. However, I do believe that taking the piss out of someone's religion is not in the same league as killing someone who doesn't share your religious beliefs.
What a load of B2222222's. It's called freedom of speech. Those cartoonists at CH mocked everyone and didn't deserve to be murdered by freaks. We have all seen what these freaks think of freedom of speech and how they kill innocent people. The one good thing is that they are slowly being eradicated from the planet.
None of the conditions (for want of a better word) in your first sentence is a choice. It is a choice to follow a religion and therefore fair game in my opinion.
Agree how you compare someone that has a disability (through no choice of their own) to someone who decides to follow something and 12 months later kills people? Cologne keeps coming out with stupid posts. Maybe he should stop supporting these freaks or go to Iraq or wherever he thinks the killing of cartoonists is 'justified'. Muppet comments.
The problem is Stroller, that religion, culture and race are very often so intertwined that they are difficult to separate. Charlie Hebdo's depiction of dead Syrian refugee babies as potential 'ass gropers in Germany' was a step beyond acceptable satire - as are depictions of Moslems which incorporate all the well known Arab stereotypes in distorted form - big lips, big noses etc. Where does religious satire end and racism begin ? Is being anti Jewish acceptable ? Was all of the Nazi propaganda of the 30s acceptable because the Jews were a religious grouping ? 99% of all Moslems are of Arab, Turkish, Persian, Afghan/Pakistani/Indian, or Indonesian origins - it is a semitic religion - so how could satire be anything other than racist. Why do we not use the word 'anti semitic' to describe Islamophobia ? Freedom of speech is one thing - but not all elements of society have access to it and when a magazine which has become such a central part of the establishment concentrates its scorn upon groups which have become marginalized then it assumes more of the nature of the type of magazines circulating in Nazi Germany in the 1930s.
Keep your personal insults to yourself please. The satire which was used was aimed at all Moslems - not just the tiny minority throwing bombs. It lumped all Moslems in the same boat, and contained a racist element which I cannot accept. I have never said in any post that I approve of murder, so don't try to put words into my mouth.
