Off Topic The Politics Thread

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Should the UK remain a part of the EU or leave?

  • Stay in

    Votes: 56 47.9%

  • Get out

    Votes: 61 52.1%
  • Total voters
    117
  • Poll closed .
KentGaz said:
That's how he won 3 General Elections, the British public are stupid and misinformed.
I've never liked him.
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I think we all must accept that, to a certain extent, all politicians lie, but what Bliar did over the Iraq war was and is unforgivable. One of the greatest war crimes short of a certain Mr Hitlers regime. Blood on his hands. I do hope that one day he is brought to book.
 
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ELLERS said:
Finglas, I don't know if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me? At the end of the day it was an EU problem and they sat and did nothing. They want some sort of EU army as well!<yikes> Can you imagine being protected by French and Italian troops? They would have 3-hour lunch breaks then change sides.
Sorry but I think Nato has been the best deterrent. :emoticon-0148-yes:
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I'm disagreeing with you Ellers.

How was a war between Russia and Ukraine an EU problem? The one time a NATO country needed NATO to protect their borders when the Russians entered, NATO did feck all. Great show of solidarity that was between NATO members. How have NATO been a deterrent when they can't even protect one of their member countries from being invaded? Economic cooperation between countries is the best way of maintaining peace within Europe. To the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been a war between two EU countries since the EU started and whilst it continues, I doubt there will be a war between it's members. The countries on the outside are a different proposition, ie. Russia and Ukraine for example.
 
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finglasqpr said:
I'm disagreeing with you Ellers.

How was a war between Russia and Ukraine an EU problem? The one time a NATO country needed NATO to protect their borders when the Russians entered, NATO did feck all. Great show of solidarity that was between NATO members. How have NATO been a deterrent when they can't even protect one of their member countries from being invaded? Economic cooperation between countries is the best way of maintaining peace within Europe. To the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been a war between two EU countries since the EU started and whilst it continues, I doubt there will be a war between it's members. The countries on the outside are a different proposition, ie. Russia and Ukraine for example.
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Finglas I think we have our wires crossed. I wasn't actually talking about the Ukraine but have just noticed you mentioned it in brackets. What I was saying was while Russia threatens EU countries (which it does by deploying missiles and troops on their borders), the EU does nothing.

Regarding the Ukraine, that is not yet an EU member so it doesn't count and also not a Nato member but something other than sanctions should have been done. Ukraine is also difficult situation as it has many Russians living there. If Russia invaded France/Poland then Nato would act.

Make no bones about it, the US would kick Russia into next week if it were a conventional war. The US military is far superior to the outdated Russian military. I even believe that the Russian Aircraft carrier that sailed through the channel a few weeks back had to have barges to pull it along and it's engines were f222ed.

Without Nato and the US, I doubt the EU would have existed.

finglasqpr said:
"How have NATO been a deterrent when they can't even protect one of their member countries from being invaded?
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what Nato country has been invaded?
 
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Fingy, listen, UKRAINE HAS NEVER BEEN A MEMBER OF NATO. I know from past Historical and Geographical errors youve made you wont listen but.
Relations between Ukraine and North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) started in 1994.[1] Ukraine applied to join the NATO Membership Action Plan (MAP) in 2008.[2][3] Plans for NATO membership were shelved by Ukraine following the 2010 presidential election in which Viktor Yanukovych, who preferred to keep the country non-aligned, was elected President.[4][5] Amid the Euromaidan unrest, Yanukovych fled Ukraine in February 2014.[6] The interim Yatsenyuk Government which came to power, initially said, with reference to the country's non-aligned status, that it had no plans to join NATO.[7] However, following the Russian military intervention in Ukraine and parliamentary elections in October 2014, the new government made joining NATO a priority.[8].
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine–NATO_relations#cite_note-rferl.org-8
Ireland are not members either so if the Russians land you'll have to start drinking Vodka instead of Guinness.
 
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It's not a member of Nato, that's why Russia is pushing it's weight around as they want to be members.
 
ELLERS said:
Finglas I think we have our wires crossed. I wasn't actually talking about the Ukraine but have just noticed you mentioned it in brackets. What I was saying was while Russia threatens EU countries (which it does by deploying missiles and troops on their borders), the EU does nothing.

Regarding the Ukraine, that is not yet an EU member so it doesn't count and also not a Nato member but something other than sanctions should have been done. Ukraine is also difficult situation as it has many Russians living there. If Russia invaded France/Poland then Nato would act.

Make no bones about it, the US would kick Russia into next week if it were a conventional war. The US military is far superior to the outdated Russian military. I even believe that the Russian Aircraft carrier that sailed through the channel a few weeks back had to have barges to pull it along and it's engines were f222ed.

Without Nato and the US, I doubt the EU would have existed.


what Nato country has been invaded?
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I'm afraid you're wide of the mark about the US winning a conventional war mate. It's been known for quite some time that a Russian victory is the likely outcome. Troop placements and withdrawals have a lot to do with it.

Have a read: https://warontherocks.com/2016/04/outnumbered-outranged-and-outgunned-how-russia-defeats-nato/
 
rangercol said:
You do love to lecture don't you?
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No.

Is this the best you can do? The last post you didn't like, you insulted me personally by saying you found me condescending. This one, you use 'lecturing' as a personal insult. What will I be next time? Not a "true patriot", perhaps?

If you don't like what I write, don't read my posts or respond to them. It's not hard.
 
rangercol said:
I'm afraid you're wide of the mark about the US winning a conventional war mate. It's been known for quite some time that a Russian victory is the likely outcome. Troop placements and withdrawals have a lot to do with it.

Have a read: https://warontherocks.com/2016/04/outnumbered-outranged-and-outgunned-how-russia-defeats-nato/
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I think they could but it would take many years. The Russins would take over most of Europe and it would take forever to retake. A bit like Europe 1939-1945.
 
rangercol said:
I'm afraid you're wide of the mark about the US winning a conventional war mate. It's been known for quite some time that a Russian victory is the likely outcome. Troop placements and withdrawals have a lot to do with it.

Have a read: https://warontherocks.com/2016/04/outnumbered-outranged-and-outgunned-how-russia-defeats-nato/
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This is a difficult one to answer. I read some of that stuff and agree it would be hard, however I have seen and read enough stuff that suggests that Russia is not the power it was. I think they now have only one aircraft carrier? The ships are old cold war ones and rusting away. As for tanks, the gulf war proved that tanks are useless against airpower. The Iraq tanks were Russian ones as well. I guess Col I would have to disagree. Airpower wins wars and the US would take Russia apart in the air.

http://www.globalfirepower.com
 
GoldhawkRd said:
There was indeed a strident group in favour of leaving the EU during the Blair years who had a democratic right to speak. The difference is, none of them should have been up before the International Criminal Court for war crimes
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Probably, but so what?

I'm not supporting Blair in any way, Goldie. He's been the worst sort of amoral politician. I'm supporting his right to speak, though, despite not agreeing with him, and definitely not agreeing with some of his past actions.

Stopping people from speaking (subject to the law of the land, obv.) would be on a par with burning books.
 
TheBigDipper said:
No.

Is this the best you can do? The last post you didn't like, you insulted me personally by saying you found me condescending. This one, you use 'lecturing' as a personal insult. What will I be next time? Not a "true patriot", perhaps?

If you don't like what I write, don't read my posts or respond to them. It's not hard.
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In my opinion you lecture fellow posters in a condescending way. You come across as hugely patronising at time imo.
You must be a very delicate flower if you find "condescending" and "lecturing" to be personal insults.

Get over yourself!
 
TheBigDipper said:
Probably, but so what?

I'm not supporting Blair in any way, Goldie. He's been the worst sort of amoral politician. I'm supporting his right to speak, though, despite not agreeing with him, and definitely not agreeing with some of his past actions.

Stopping people from speaking (subject to the law of the land, obv.) would be on a par with burning books.
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I completely agree that Bliar (subject to the fact that he should be inside) has a right to voice his opinions, flawed though they may be, but FFS the election was 8 months ago. It was won by the leave camp using the same democratic basis upon which Bliar won the general elections that saw him gain and retain power. One wonders what his reaction would have been to any Tory who tried to gain support for a new election based on the lies in the Labour party manifesto! If the democratic process was good enough for him to win power, it is good enough for us to leave the EU.
 
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