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The Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Tottenham Hotspur' started by Wandering Yid, Feb 9, 2016.

  1. RobSpur

    RobSpur Well-Known Member

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    My understanding is that the main cause of world war 1 wasnt the arrogance of Kaiser Wilhelm, but the arrogance of the British, French and Belgiums calving up Africa between them and leaving Germany with next to nothing.
     
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  2. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    I would say opinion is split between those who say all the great powers were about equally at fault, and those who believe the central powers deserve special blame. The idea that the allies were more at fault I haven't really heard before, tbh.

    But however that may be regarding starting the war, the Kaiser, IMO, deserves the blame for losing it for Germany. Bismarck had made allies of both Russia and England. The Kaiser threw both alliances away to deprive Germany of the ability to win the war, then added the US to his list of enemies to lose it.

    The Kaiser was good at making enemies and so is Trump. That is not a quality you want in a head of state.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  3. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    Well done, we've now reached the end of the argument #GodwinsLaw
     
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  4. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    His plan assumes that all products made in Mexico can immediately and seamlessly be made in USA. A ludicrous notion.
     
    #2544
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  5. redwhiteandermblue

    redwhiteandermblue Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I follow it pretty frequently. Fair enough to say it makes political arguments both tedious and unreasonable. But better that than watch politicians go down the road of scapegoating and group hates without pointing out that it does not end well. In my case, someone needs to come up with a law about comparing foreign policy chiefs to Kaiser Wilhelm or Agesilaus, comparisons I also make frequently when I think they are driven to win domestic popularity at the cost of the nation's interests.
     
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  6. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    It reminds me a lot of Boris Johnson and his buses: he didn't like bendy buses and wanted rid of them, yet didn't consider the cost of replacing them until the bill for the first batch of Routemasters landed on his desk.

    Naturally, he got an easy ride for such utter stupidity.
     
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  7. vimhawk

    vimhawk Well-Known Member

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    That's a new one on me, sounds like a bit of revisionist history which turns up from time to time that is sometimes taken to be true because there seems to be some acceptance that there's been some kind of conspiracy to hide the real history - until it was (re)discovered in the age of the internet! No offence Rob, the causes of the First World War are pretty well established through much accepted work by respected people cleverer than me. They might give different weighting to the various factors but I doubt would consider the African colonies to be up there as one of the more important. The relatively recent BBC drama 37 days was a very good summary of the events:

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/37-Days-Countdown-World-War/dp/B00JDATWUW

    37 days was the length of time between the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand and the start of The Great War (and interesting to see The Emperor in a different role!) Another much older BBC drama that dealt with the causes of the war up to the end of the conflict was the absolutely brilliant Fall of Eagles.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fall-Eagles-Complete-Patrick-Stewart/dp/B0002XOYW0/ref=sr_1_3?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1485794765&sr=1-3&keywords=fall+of+eagles

    This was notable for showing that Patrick Stewart looked pretty much the same even in 1974, and got into the relationships between the leaders, many of whom were related (I think the King, the Kaiser and the Tsar were cousins, having all descended from Queen Victoria).
     
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    Last edited: Jan 30, 2017
  8. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    Bit odd to see Britain, France and Belgium being criticised for their imperialism in Africa.
    Not because it's not true or there's nothing to criticise, but because they didn't let the Germans join in! <laugh>
    Didn't the Africans have enough to deal with?
     
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  9. SpursDisciple

    SpursDisciple Booking: Mod abuse - overturned on appeal
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    Lederhosen would have been the final straw
     
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  10. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    I've always wondered if they drank those massive steins of beer because they wore lederhosen or the reverse?
    It's a Bavarian chicken or egg problem.
     
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  11. littleDinosaurLuke

    littleDinosaurLuke Well-Known Member

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    At the start of WWI, there was quite a large German colonial empire in Africa - German East Africa, German West Africa, German South-West Africa and German New Guinea accounted for 22 modern day countries. There were a number of Brandenburg-Prussian colonies too. They were hardly excluded.
     
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  12. deedub93

    deedub93 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, Rwanda and possibly Burundi as well, And who could forget Namibia with the wonderful German Beer Windhoek? It's got the Rheinheitsgabot (spelling) seal of approval.
     
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  13. The RDBD

    The RDBD Well-Known Member

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    #2553
  14. humanbeingincroydon

    humanbeingincroydon Well-Known Member

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    Theresa May is having a hard time grasping the fact that a state visit has nothing to do with her.

    I guess we should add that to the ever-growing list of things that Theresa May has a hard time of grasping...
     
    #2554
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  15. audrey.s.thackeray

    audrey.s.thackeray Well-Known Member

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    Apart from Trump's hand, apparently. :emoticon-0150-hands
    (I thought she held on to that to make sure it didn't wander where it wasn't welcome!) <doh>
     
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  16. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    please log in to view this image
     
    #2556
  17. RobSpur

    RobSpur Well-Known Member

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    Am struggling to coroborate my colonial argument atm.

    Will return at later date.
     
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  18. RobSpur

    RobSpur Well-Known Member

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    I do know a little gem about the ferdinand assassination though.

    The assassin missed the chance to shoot him and went home.

    Unfortunately for mr ferdinand, he and his wife decided to stop at a shop after their parade or whatever it was, and the assassin was walking past on his way home just as they pulled over to go to the shop.

    So the assassin raised his gun and shot him.

    True story that.
     
    #2558
  19. PleaseNotPoll

    PleaseNotPoll Well-Known Member
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    It's worse than that. There was a gang of assassins that planned an ambush.
    Several didn't use the bombs that they'd been supplied with, but one did react.
    He threw his right at the car and hit it. It bounced off, blew up and hurt a load of bystanders.

    The authorities nicked him and thought that was it.
    They diverted Ferdinand to the hospital to see the wounded.
    He passed right by one of the other assassins, who shot him and his wife dead.
    For some reason she's never really mentioned.
     
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  20. RobSpur

    RobSpur Well-Known Member

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    Knew it was something like that.

    Great security team <laugh>
     
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